Who needs FF now?

[bakubo]

It is amusing to see how just recently FF was all the rage and now, suddenly, APS-C is just so amazing.

[David Kilpatrick]

If lenses appear for APS-C which genuinely match those for FF, the way the high end Olympus lenses match 4/3rds to larger formats despite its 12 megapixel and low ISO boundaries, I can see why. I was actually torn between taking the A550 to the USA or the A900. The A900 won, but now I am back and working with the 16-80mm on the 550 (etc) I wonder if it was the best decision.

David

[pakodominguez]

I "need" FF.
I keep the A700 as a backup, but I haven't use it in a while.
I don't "need" another FF body now, but if the price is good, I'll sell the A700 and get a second FF body.
I like to work with wide angle lenses, but I've been never a fan of ultra-wides. I bought the 85mm f1.4 because the 100mm f2.8 was a little too long for what I need. Since I have the A850 I sold the 85mm (I made 25% plus-value...)
APS on NEX is a different mater; I was looking for a small camera that I can have with me all the time, and after trying a couple of P&S, I realized I can not live with P&S quality, so I was about to buy a GF1 when NEX arrived...

[Danjojo_Resurrected1]

Check out the DxO mark sensor results for NEX-5 vs. Sony a900 and it does look very impressive for the new APS-C direction. Tonal range, color sensitivity, and SNR are basically a draw

I think the new Sony FF will be a show stopper though. Sony is the leader for affordable FF cams and I can see it getting better and better down the road.

[peterottaway]

I definitely will stay with FF as it pushes all the right buttons with me.

The NEX is a valid contender if and only if it has a quality EVF and Sony delivers decent software updates I can download to my Apple Mac. If I do buy a NEX camera it will replace my A 700 as a backup camera and because I do own a fairly large number of Minolta MD and Olympus OM lenses.

Sony isn't doing itself any favours by not releasing a Mac version of the SW 2.0 update even if Apple has been responsible for taking away billions of dollars in sales from them. It is creating doubt about future support and even though I have a substantial investment in Minolta/Sony glass that would not stop me from changing camera brands. Given the current prices I probably wouldn't loose much money.

[Greg Beetham]

The downside too me with FF (besides the expense) is the overall system size and weight, just for starters in common with most DSLR's the camera body is a LOT heavier than an equivalent film camera due too the large and heavy battery mainly, (as compared to the battery used in film cameras), of course the convenience and necessity of the high resolution rear screen, SSS, high powerd CPU's/processing/data thoughput, system standby for fast startup, high speed AF, IC/encoder equipped lenes, all consume vast amounts of power as compared too a film camera. (Good film cameras had a small CPU of course for fast exposure/mode calcuations, and some had top deck LCD's, along with the AF motor, film winder motor, and lens comms, but battery consumption was much less than a DSLR, and the bodies usually were much lighter as a general rule).
The main contributer too FF system weight and size though I think is the high quality/heavy and expensive lenses one must buy (and carry) too realize the full potential of digital FF, so it's more like MF in that respect I think, you would try to avoid carrying a whole bunch of lenses if you are only going too do a specific type of photography.
One more thing I think needs consideration with FF digital, the very large file sizes that need storage capacity both in camera and hard disk usage and backup, and therfore possibly extra expense on/with computer requirements.
But taking all of the above into account and even though I don't print any larger than 10X8 normally, I would still have a FF in my kit (for specific purposes) if I could afford the lenses to go along with it, I still think FF offers more cropping ability (should you need it) than APS-C does and the images at/on a high res monitor look more like MF quality....at least too my eye that is.
Greg

[David Kilpatrick]

little-and-large.jpg (37.3 KiB) Viewed 6024 times

[pakodominguez]

yep: I need (and have) the big one, I want both

BTW David, the pic is good for the "Photos with evidence of the photographer" thread

[bakubo]

Yes, I have long believed that there are many things that you have to juggle to try and find the best compromise for you. I do know that there have been some who are very focused like a laser beam on IQ and concerned with which lens is fractionally better than another, micro-contrast, color depth, 3D-like quality, maximum resolution, per-pixel sharpness, distortion, vignetting, etc. though. And some have determined that to get the best they can they need to use FF and the very best lenses. I have found it rather jarring though for convenience to have been raised to such a new, high level among this group now.

I have always considered size and weight to be very important and have compromised many times, but that has often been contrary to the opinions of others. I still have to wonder though if you will really be able to compromise IQ by using APS-C and so-so lenses for more convenience? Won't you end up not really using the NEX much after the newness has worn off? Yes, I know you plan to keep your FF gear too. But if you take even one photo with the NEX then you have chosen to compromise for that photo. What got you to go from APS-C to FF to begin with?

I guess new technology does cause us all to rethink things from time to time though.

[David Kilpatrick]

FF for me was a) larger than the Alamy size requirement - important to me b) able to offer extreme wide angle and fisheye functions using lenses I could afford which also had uses on APS-C. It remains important for ultimate quality.

APS-C 14 megapixels is now larger than Alamy's new 24MB requirement therefore any pictures taken on it do not have to be compromised by upscaling. I can now use it happily. We were considering an A850 for Shirley. Now she can just use the A700 no problems.

David

[bakubo]

Over the last 3 years I have gone back and forth about getting a FF body + new lenses. Yes, I get GAS sometimes too, but almost always am able to resist it. In 2007 I had a Canon 5D, 17-40mm f4L, 24-105mm f4L IS, 70-200mm f4L IS, 50mm f1.4, and flash in my cart at Amazon. It sat there for a couple of weeks and almost everyday I went there and almost hit the buy button, but then would decide to think about it some more. Since the A900 and especially A850 came out I have also several times almost bought one and a couple of new lenses. I have also been off-and-on looking at that earlier Canon kit, but with the 5DII instead of the 5D.

For me it always comes down to size and weight though when I travel and I always reluctantly decide that the new gear would be great....and it could have a nice, uneventful life sitting in a closet somewhere most of the time because I would probably end up not taking it with me much when I travel.

For me, at least, the current NEX would not be a camera that I would take instead of a DSLR. But, it is too big and has other drawbacks that make it not an ideal (for me) pocket camera to take along with a DSLR. I mentioned in my earlier post about the 2 additional models that I would like to see. Sony may decide there isn't enough in it for them though to make something like those two. Maybe some other company will. Or, someday if I decide all hope is lost I may give in and buy a NEX II.

[Jasper_D]

I do. The quality I get (better said, got) from my A900 is unmatched by anything else I own or can imagine owning. I have this mindset that whatever picture I will take with something else - and I did a lot of that lately, forced by the events - I will always keep wondering 'how much better it could have been with the A900'. That's why all my other cameras are backups, always carrying the best I have on my back. Granted, not with all lenses though, limited to three usually, but the same would apply with a smaller (sensor) camera as well.

[bakubo]

I do. The quality I get (better said, got) from my A900 is unmatched by anything else I own or can imagine owning. I have this mindset that whatever picture I will take with something else - and I did a lot of that lately, forced by the events - I will always keep wondering 'how much better it could have been with the A900'. That's why all my other cameras are backups, always carrying the best I have on my back. Granted, not with all lenses though, limited to three usually, but the same would apply with a smaller (sensor) camera as well.

Okay, that sounds like you are saying that you could not accept the big stepdown in quality to shoot with a NEX. From all the talk about IQ, FF, etc. I think you are not unusual. Yes, it has some very, very nice things about it, mostly size and video, but it isn't FF with CZ lenses and big flashes. My thoughts were that if APS-C and consumer lenses were enough then why would so many people spend so much money on FF and the top end lenses? And why would there be so much discussion (and even arguments! ) on the various forums about which of 2 or 3 lenses is marginally "better"? Or which sensor is marginally better? If those things aren't that important to a person they would have probably just stayed with the A700 or A550 and mid-level lenses to begin with.

I am one of the people who can accept the quality I get from the A700 and mid-level lenses so the NEX would be fine with me -- if it had a few small operational changes. But, I am not as focused on the technical image aspects gained by owning the best of the best gear. If that gear was smaller and lighter though then I would get it too!

[Mark K]

I am the only one here who really needs a full frame, for the benefit of image quality. ...Yes I suffer a lot from carrying all these heavy optics and accessories from carrying a basic system consists of an a850, a 24-70, a 58 flash, one macro, one tele and a wide angle lens..The story is also true when I lugged my old EOS 5D around.

I have this wildest dream of a Nex body utilizing a FF sensor. That is what an M9 is.

[bossel]

I personally don't need FF and I am more than happy with what the A700 offers.