LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lenses?

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby bakubo » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:52 am

I still think this would be a cool thing to do and I am disappointed that so far Sony, Sigma, Tamron, or someone else hasn't done it.

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby bakubo » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:12 pm

Barry has made some comments about this thread in another thread so I will link to the other thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7894

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby bakubo » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:02 pm

It is getting rather confusing with Barry replying to this thread in a different thread so I will copy his comments about this thread into this thread.

bfitzgerald wrote:There are consequences for ILC cameras with adaptors for other lenses.
Sony have not resisted this as the thread says, Fuji also actually put a few videos on youtube encouraging people to use adaptors (X system)
Samsung have not really embraced the idea at all though.

The good news is yes you can use older lenses (MD mount seem popular on the Fuji X's though you can get an adaptor for A mount manual aperture control though)
My question is this, if I buy an ILC and start using adaptors then it's not very likely that I'd be buying many of the makers native lenses. So long term it's questionable if this is profitable for the company which might mean they charge more for bodies.


bfitzgerald wrote:Henry it's time to visit your optician soon ;-)
I speak for all lenses in a general sense, but you cannot assume in any way that makers will support AF with adaptors there is no evidence at all for this.
And most likely it will never happen for many reasons.

What is amazing is that anyone would think a maker would embrace/allow AF with other makers lenses on their own mount. Did anyone do business classes at school? Naive assumptions about mirror less have been the problem since day one. If there was money to be made reverse engineering adaptors to do AF and aperture control (fairly pointless just having AF on it's own) on ILC models it most likely would have been done

Did it not strike anyone out there that maybe your average Canon EOS users wants to actually use their lenses mostly on Canon EOS products, and not on micro 4/3, NEX or X mounts?

Because it was pretty damn obvious to me :roll:


bfitzgerald wrote:I read the thread in depth. You are suggesting adaptors with "full functionality" that means AF and aperture control I assume.
My reply is as above "not going to happen" by all means keep dreaming, but it's not viable for a number of reasons. And even if it were then it would have been done already.

A few obvious reasons why
Cost of making adaptors, Canon have electronic aperture control everyone else is mechanical. The Sony adaptor you mention is expensive (nearly as much as a budget SLT body)
Second reason, if you want an ILC it's likely at least partly down to size. As most of these lenses are not that small (bar a few shorter focal length primes) it's going to be counter productive to that goal

The reason buying up MF lenses on ebay for "next to nothing" appeals to some ILC users is these are lenses very few people want (because of mount changes etc) and "THEY ARE CHEAP" (mostly) The situation changes quite a bit with AF lenses and lenses with no aperture ring (ie modern SLR lenses)
Anyone who want's to dump their DSLR/s and lenses would be better off just selling them rather than trying to use them on an ILC model, then hit ebay and buy up some of those golden oldie MF lenses to fill in the gaps you need.


It seems that from what I am reading there is now an adapter that can be used with the A7rII that allows PDAF with Canon EF lenses and aperture control. I suspect this sort of thing will get better over time. Sounds good to me!
Last edited by bakubo on Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby bakubo » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:04 pm

I will copy this post by Greg replying to Barry to this thread also.

Greg Beetham wrote:I don’t know if there are any fully functional adaptors for E-mount to late model Canon or Nikon lenses yet, but I doubt it.
If you have a look at the circuit board in the 70-200 IS USM lens (scroll down) under repair at Lens Rental you get an idea just how proprietary those things are and Nikon lenses would be just as bad.
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/08/lensrentals-repair-data-2012-2013
Like Henry I think said, maybe the only ones that would stand a good chance of building a fully functional NEX E to Canon EF adaptor (and Nikon) would be Sigma or Tamron but why would Sigma or Tamron want to do it?
Even if it were possible to make a translator circuit board in the adaptor work properly with both camera and lens with flash control if required what’s in it for them, just the markup on the adaptor? They probably won’t be selling any lenses so why would they bother.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they did make such an adaptor it would be very expensive, to cover any possible litigation by the respective OEM’s.
I doubt either Canon or Nikon (for example) would be keen on the idea either because they wouldn’t be getting anything out of it. People who own a NEX aren’t going to buy the E-EF adaptor and then go buy a new Canon lens, they’d already own the lens or maybe have bought a second hand lens (could be Sigma or Tamron also) at a good price.
That’s my take anyway, I don’t think there would be much incentive for the suppliers that would most likely be able to do a good job on the adaptors to actually do it.
I very much doubt Sony would go out on a limb and make them either, although they probably could as well.
There’s a possibility that a Chinese plant could do it with impunity though, those fake shops can build just about anything if they want to, if they did and the adaptors worked without a glitch they would sell lots of them I’d imagine.
There’s probably quite a few photographers who still have a lens or two left over from the previous brand after a system change who also have a NEX, that kind of situation could be an incentive to buy such an adaptor if one for the mount they wanted were to come on the scene.
Greg

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby Vidgamer » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:35 am

Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.metabones.com/sony/buy-eos-nex-adapter


My guess is that AF would be real slow, like with the EA1 adapter. No one is going to make an SLT adapter but Sony.

Maybe more interesting are the "speed booster" adapters.

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby bakubo » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:40 pm

Vidgamer wrote:Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.metabones.com/sony/buy-eos-nex-adapter


My guess is that AF would be real slow, like with the EA1 adapter. No one is going to make an SLT adapter but Sony.


Yes, I imagine that would be a poor adaptor.

I am not looking for an adaptor. I don't even have a NEX and don't have much interest in one. Barry, as he so often does, is creating a Straw Man and then responding to that rather than what was actually written. He did it here also:

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7265&p=75421&hilit=straw+man#p75421

We all have our quirks and, I imagine, we have all become accustomed to this one. :lol:
Last edited by bakubo on Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:10 pm

Vidgamer wrote:Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.metabones.com/sony/buy-eos-nex-adapter


My guess is that AF would be real slow, like with the EA1 adapter. No one is going to make an SLT adapter but Sony.

Maybe more interesting are the "speed booster" adapters.


That was a good find Vidgamer; that looks almost like the adaptor that Henry wasn’t looking for. :lol: Pity it seems to be a bit temperamental with the odd lens and the AF might be as they themselves admit, slow.
I see there is no such equivalent for AF Nikon lenses, I’m not sure about aperture control either, I assume only the earlier model Nikon F lenses with a proper f-stop ring will have aperture selection. I thought I saw mentioned somewhere that you could obtain and adaptor with aperture selection on the adaptor for the AF type lenses but I didn’t notice the metabones Nikon adaptor had that ability, unless I missed it. (I went back to check but the page took too long to open so I gave up)
And yes the speed booster is actually quite an amazing invention, I don’t know anything about the IQ though.
Greg

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby bakubo » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:33 pm

Greg Beetham wrote:That was a good find Vidgamer; that looks almost like the adaptor that Henry wasn’t looking for. :lol:


If somebody started making full-function adaptors for NEX then that might get me interested in NEX. :lol:

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:58 pm

bakubo wrote:
Greg Beetham wrote:That was a good find Vidgamer; that looks almost like the adaptor that Henry wasn’t looking for. :lol:


If somebody started making full-function adaptors for NEX then that might get me interested in NEX. :lol:


This is the other "issue for discussion"
And it has an impact on other ILC systems too, even "if" a fully functional adaptor turned up for various AF mounts. Are there bodies that you might want to buy or use?

Problems for me are

- Samsung NX uncertain future, slow to release lenses and not sure how they stand out v other ILC Models
- Canon EOS M, fairly weedy effort but blow out deals around and it might pick up a few Canon users here and there
- Nikon 1, sensor too small for me and it's not going to be very useful with that big crop factor unless you shove a tele lens on there for wildlife type shots
- Ricoh GXR as predicted, wrong idea at the wrong time (might have worked pre micro 4/3 era for a while) Bar picking up one of the blow out deals it's a dead duck, or maybe a few M mount users it's RIP from what I can see.
- NEX, so far bar the embarrassingly cut down/designed A3000 all the bodies are pretty compact. Yes I can get aperture and AF control but £££ isn't appealing add the cost of a NEX (whichever one) and the adaptor and it's not so appealing. No IBIS either
- Fuji X, on paper they appeal the most (ie design wise) but the lack of wireless flash and HSS is a major stumbling block for some types of shooting that kills my interest right now, mix in some bugs and "kinda beta" models not quire ironed out it's not ready for the prime time, no IBIS either
- Micro 4/3, well I give them credit they have the best lens range, not bad flash, and have a good selection of bodies and the GX-7 and EM-1 look like the best offerings to date. IBIS is a plus, but is the sensor size right? Well I'm not so sure
- Pentax Q, strange idea seems to be a bit of a cult thing in Japan..bit like a 110mm tiny film camera except it's got a tiny compact sensor that's far smaller.

So let's break it down..
How useful are 35mm FF or crop lenses on a Nikon 1?
Not very in most cases
Even less on the Pentax Q so scrub those off right away.

So APS-C that leaves NEX, NX, Fuji X, Canon EOS M.
Then Micro 4/3
2x crop of APS-C on micro 4/3 isn't going to be amazingly useful either certainly less useful than FF on APS-C is, again a compromise but arguably less so.
So out of those 4 APS-C models you have to find something you like.

Then the next round of problems happen.
Bar your short focal length primes most of those FF or even APS-C lenses are not so small. Fancy wandering around with a 70-210mm on your NEX? It can be done but how practical is it?

That's probably the reason there isn't a huge interest in this.
But that might "change" a bit with a FF NEX (at least I assume Sony think so)
So if we can use those 35mm FF Lenses on a FF NEX (we assume eventually with no limitations) we're still back to square one, a small body that isn't particularly well suited to most of the FF lenses that are out there. This is the real problem, it's not "it can't be done" probably can, the issue is "do you want to" and I'm wondering if this is the reason that mirrorless has so far been a rocky ride.

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby Vidgamer » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:41 am

bfitzgerald wrote:
bakubo wrote:
Greg Beetham wrote:That was a good find Vidgamer; that looks almost like the adaptor that Henry wasn’t looking for. :lol:


If somebody started making full-function adaptors for NEX then that might get me interested in NEX. :lol:


This is the other "issue for discussion"
And it has an impact on other ILC systems too, even "if" a fully functional adaptor turned up for various AF mounts. Are there bodies that you might want to buy or use?
...

So let's break it down..
How useful are 35mm FF or crop lenses on a Nikon 1?


But why use 35mm FF lenses on a Nikon 1? Why not buy Nikon 1 lenses? Or, in the case of M43, at least you have a large lens selection available.

Not very in most cases
Even less on the Pentax Q so scrub those off right away.

So APS-C that leaves NEX, NX, Fuji X, Canon EOS M.
Then Micro 4/3
2x crop of APS-C on micro 4/3 isn't going to be amazingly useful either certainly less useful than FF on APS-C is, again a compromise but arguably less so.
So out of those 4 APS-C models you have to find something you like.


Then the next round of problems happen.
Bar your short focal length primes most of those FF or even APS-C lenses are not so small. Fancy wandering around with a 70-210mm on your NEX? It can be done but how practical is it?


I carry a 55-210, sometimes. It is very practical. It has a small aperture, so it's fairly skinny and light. I have a lens "holster" bag that I velcro to my belt. I've used it with a-mount zooms, and the Nex 55-210 flops around in it loosely; it is long though. If I want to travel compact, I can leave the 55-210 at home. If you want longer focal lengths but still want a compact lens size, then you may prefer smaller-sensor cameras. However, I find that most of the time, I want wider angles, and that's fine for the Nex, if you're trying to keep it small.

That's probably the reason there isn't a huge interest in this.
But that might "change" a bit with a FF NEX (at least I assume Sony think so)
So if we can use those 35mm FF Lenses on a FF NEX (we assume eventually with no limitations) we're still back to square one, a small body that isn't particularly well suited to most of the FF lenses that are out there. This is the real problem, it's not "it can't be done" probably can, the issue is "do you want to" and I'm wondering if this is the reason that mirrorless has so far been a rocky ride.


Most people think DSLR-style body means a serious, good camera, so I don't think a lot of people "get" mirrorless. But the word is getting out. I think this is why mirrorless hasn't taken off more.

With an FF Nex you can get FF lenses, but with the current Nex you can use APS-C lenses. Must you use FF lenses? Is it because you already own a lot of glass? If you've got really old manual focus lenses, the Nex is a great platform for that. You can get much of the FF benefit now using the "speed booster" type lenses. I'm not sure I get the obsession with FF lenses. Why not medium format?

But I don't think Nex is going to take off just because a few want to use old legacy lenses, regardless of how well supported. This is a niche interest, IMO.

If you want full-functioning PDAF with A-mount lenses, you can use Sony's EA2 adapter today. A lot of people are using it. I'd like to get one for use with my 300mm lens, but it gets silly after a while. On the rare occasion I want to use A-mount lenses, I have the older EA1 adapter with which I must manually focus.

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:43 pm

I personally don't see the point of buying a FF body and using crop lenses, bar the odd time you have no choice. But then I've most of the focal range covered in FF lenses anyway so there wouldn't be much point for me personally. And I've been quite careful to avoid some types of crop lenses where a FF offering would keep options open later on.

I'm still thinking that the industry has overlooked on critical point. If we have a system based on what is basically the range-finder format..those cameras were near enough mostly wide end 12-15mm to maybe 135mm odd. And primes not zooms.

I think that the concept of the range-finder is a more niche appeal from day one, not knocking it because I quite like the concept "for some types of shooting". Where it falls down is in the flexibility of zooms and a bigger range of lenses that the SLR land ran with.

I just don't think a compact type body is suited to longer focal lengths or zoom lenses (esp not fast zoom lenses either) I think that's why the SLR type design with larger bodies with bigger grips came into play. And I suspect that the growth in ILC systems isn't going to pick up any time soon either. LA-EA2 is quite expensive at about £260, that nearly buys you a body so IMO it's questionable how useful it would be. Then if you run a 2 body set up things get even more expensive.

If Sony intended on doing FF with NEX, they should have likely just stuck to A mount for both thus avoiding the problems of adaptors. Don't know how that one escaped them...seems rather obvious to me ;-)

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby Vidgamer » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:23 am

bfitzgerald wrote:I personally don't see the point of buying a FF body and using crop lenses, bar the odd time you have no choice. But then I've most of the focal range covered in FF lenses anyway so there wouldn't be much point for me personally. And I've been quite careful to avoid some types of crop lenses where a FF offering would keep options open later on.


If I bought an FF camera, I would be buying into a system, and I'd either adapt existing lenses, or use whatever native lenses were available. In the case of the Nex, an FF Nex probably would only have a few FF lenses at first, so your choice would be the APS-C lenses to get by, as you suggest, or manual-focus (or odd AF adapter). But a new system is going to have growing pains. I guess it's this that you're concerned about.

I'm still thinking that the industry has overlooked on critical point. If we have a system based on what is basically the range-finder format..those cameras were near enough mostly wide end 12-15mm to maybe 135mm odd. And primes not zooms.

I think that the concept of the range-finder is a more niche appeal from day one, not knocking it because I quite like the concept "for some types of shooting". Where it falls down is in the flexibility of zooms and a bigger range of lenses that the SLR land ran with.

I just don't think a compact type body is suited to longer focal lengths or zoom lenses (esp not fast zoom lenses either) I think that's why the SLR type design with larger bodies with bigger grips came into play. And I suspect that the growth in ILC systems isn't going to pick up any time soon either. LA-EA2 is quite expensive at about £260, that nearly buys you a body so IMO it's questionable how useful it would be. Then if you run a 2 body set up things get even more expensive.


Some people prefer the DSLR shape and design. A lot of it, I think, is the perception that such a camera is "better", because it looks "pro". But I think the "feel" of a camera is important. If you don't like how the Nex cameras handle them, that's enough reason to not get them; you don't have to get caught up in all of this speculation as to whether or not FF will come out, what focal length is "too long" for the camera, etc. Just get a D600 and be done with it already! :mrgreen:

I don't like terribly large lenses on my DSLR or Nex, but I suppose if I mostly wanted to use large tele lenses, I wouldn't mind a larger DSLR camera. But most of my photos are at wider angles, and the Nex design is much smaller and lighter. On the rare occasion I need a longer lens, I don't mind it. I used my 100-300 at an airshow with my Nex-5. Manual-focus was a problem, glare on the LCD was a problem, but the size of the lens was not. Of course, this is known as a compact tele lens.

The EA2 is $272 at two reputable retailers, when I Googled it. That's not going to get you an A3000, much less a real DSLR, but it is a pretty good chunk of change. My thinking is that the Nex is a good value when you get the kit, but some lenses and accessories are really expensive.

If Sony intended on doing FF with NEX, they should have likely just stuck to A mount for both thus avoiding the problems of adaptors. Don't know how that one escaped them...seems rather obvious to me ;-)


But A-mount wouldn't allow a more compact design. If Sony wants to continue with A-mount, they can continue to sell DSLR/DSLT designs like they have been. They have had FF A-mount cameras for years.

Sony even made a FF compact camera that might be worth looking into, but it's a weird P&S-like design.

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby bakubo » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:51 am

I just read some stuff David has written lately on the main site and saw this:

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2013/08/27/alpha-3000-has-nex-mount-20-megapixel-aps-c/

Sony’s future, like Sigma’s, lies in crossing all boundaries. The eventual full-frame, E-mount DSLR-style camera may well have the rumoured 36-50 megapixel sensor, 4K electronic viewfinder, and five-axis sensor stabilisation. It will also have an Alpha lens adaptor and firmware lens recognition good enough to let SSM and SAM in-lens focus motor lenses function adequately with on-sensor focusing. But what it will also have, for certain, is a range of adaptors for other mounts including Canon EF and Nikon G with translated control of AF and aperture (exactly what Sigma has now built in to the front ends of its ‘switchable mount’ new lens series). These will likely be third party products, but Sony has already shown (in 2010, at photokina and other shows) that it has no difficulty welcoming makers such as Metabones and Novoflex on board as co-operative vendors.

What’s more, in theory there will room to build a phase-detect mirror system (SLT) into some adaptors and even to add a focus drive motor. With the right chipset to translate the protocols from body to lenses, or to mechanical functions in the adaptor, almost any lens ever made for any SLR or rangefinder from the last century of miniature camera development will find a home on Alpha E-mount bodies.


Time will tell whether Sony, Sigma, or someone decides to do the sort of things discussed in this thread over the past 2 years.

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby bakubo » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:02 am

bakubo wrote:Now that Sony has the new LA-EA2 A-mount to E-mount adaptor with PDAF, ability to focus screw-drive lenses, and provide full functionality I am wondering if it would be possible to have similar adaptors for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. AF SLR lenses that would allow full functionality? I suppose it would and I suppose that Sony (or whoever made these adaptors) would have to reverse engineer the communication protocols or pay to get them. Sigma and Tamron, as examples, probably have much of this already and much of the expertise to do it, but they would need the communication protocols from the adaptor to the NEX body. Wouldn't this be cool? Probably draw lots of people to NEX.


It seems to me that the A7II with IBIS would be very, very attractive with adapters that would allow Canon, Nikon, etc. lenses to be used with full functionality, fast AF, etc.

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Re: LA-EA2-like adapter for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. lens

Unread postby peterottaway » Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:29 am

This would be of most interest to enthusiasts and some pros who are using Canon EOS 1 and EOS 5 cameras and Nikon 7xx and 8xx ( and some D4) users. So not a mass market but would be a definite threat where the money is per camera unit sold.

Merely demonstrating it is possible should cause Canon and Nikon to suddenly find their mojo again or have the current crop of executives exit stage right very rapidly.

Which would be good for the entire industry and in particular photographers.


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