Ful frame rumour about NEX - is it possible?

[David Kilpatrick]

I've done some very careful measurements, allowing for perspective in presenting the true situation:

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2012/08/1 ... ull-frame/

It appears to be technically possible, if Sony really strips down the E-mount innards to a bare minimum, as even at the plane of the mount flange the 24 x 36mm format is a millimetre or so clear of the edge of the contact array asembly.

But I have to say it's pushing it and they might have allowed a millimetre more clearance had they originally planned to use full frame. Either that, or the exact tolerances involved show that they did plan it from the start and NEX was designed to the absolutely smallest size compatible with a future full frame.

David

[pakodominguez]

if Sony (is having hard time) is taking its time in order to introduce new lenses for the, lets say, APS-C NEX system, how long it will take them to get the same amount of lenses (two kit zooms, two super-zooms, four primes, two A to E adapters...) for a full frame NEX system?
I don't think that just selling A to E FF adapters will keep people happy. Not for a NEX-5/NEX-7 like user -only for people doing video, since they will need a stabilization system anyways (read "tripod" or "steadycam" here).

Pako
PS: How many lenses Minolta introduced at the same time they announced the Maxxum 7000?

[InTheSky]

Thanks again David for those really technical right and enjoying written words (hopping we can say that in English ).

I think Sony will not have to create more than probably one or two lenses ...

The camera will sell by itself for all the Leica lens owner wanting to have a less expensive camera than the M9 or future Leica model and being able to do semi-pro film (or pro ... ).

I can just imagine the perfect system I always wish (with proper adapter) to be able to switch from any other good brand lens maker.

I have too much love my experience of renting the Canon 17mm 4.0 TS lens with the NEX 7 that now having a Full frame future NEX can be the door for breaking the rules in Digital photography.

Well the auto focus will be missing ... but so far more I'm shooting without auto focus, more I'm less dependent.

My small 40mm 2.0 Leica will remain in my bag for ever . Too much good old and small Zuiko, Pentax, FD Canon, Minolta MD ... sleeping on Ebay waiting to show what they are able to do )

Regards,

Frank

[AnthonyC]

Would the sensor need to be exactly 24x36 for it to be called 'full frame'? After all APS-C is a highly variable 'standard'. They could make it fractionally smaller.

[pakodominguez]

some toughs about what's happening now with the NEX camera - Lenses offer
http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/sev ... seven.html

[jeep1]

Why not a full frame camera using NEX-7 principles but retaining the alpha mount? The thing that appealed to me about the NEX-7 over the A77 apart from size was the loss of the transparent mirror which does have a very small quality impact. I'm sure Sony will want to use the 36 Mp full frame sensor in one of its own soon, so a mirror less design would help reduce size while maintaining maximum image quality.

[artington]

Like, I suspect, many others I wish Sony would turn its attention to providing a decent lens catalogue for existing systems, not least the Nex, and defer messing around with differing iterations of cameras until it has done this. Despite undoubtedly clever innovations it still appears that the mentality here is one of an electronics company. Which is a pity because others will steal the lead ifthe systems are left incompete. Witness the OMD - a serious alternative to the NEX7 with much better lens range and in-body OIS to boot.

Of course a NEX with FF sensor would be fantastic for alternative lenses provided the banding problems with wider angle lenses are no worse.

[alphaomega]

Artington wrote

Like, I suspect, many others I wish Sony would turn its attention to providing a decent lens catalogue for existing systems, not least the Nex, and defer messing around with differing iterations of cameras until it has done this.

I can salute that. Somebody wrote (I think Thom) that Sony have released as many NEX E-mount bodies as lenses and there seems to be no end to that process. Personally I am hoping that the SAR rumour
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/wrap-up- ... gust-28th/ is spot on and there will be a 16-50 pancake and an 11-18 W/A lens announced on 28/8. I would certainly purchase the 16-50 pancake if it provides better IQ than my 18-55 kit zoom. I might consider the 11-18 if it is not too bulky. I fear the worst if the F4 number is true. If it is "big" I might stay with my 16mm pancake and W/A converter.

[Vidgamer]

Would the sensor need to be exactly 24x36 for it to be called 'full frame'? After all APS-C is a highly variable 'standard'. They could make it fractionally smaller.

This was my thought as well.

There can't be a big market for this and having a new line of lenses is impractical. But they could do it.

[Vidgamer]

According to SAR, they wouldn't make Nex FF lenses. That's probably be OK for a lot of people.

This would be an interesting ploy for Sony -- it would give them a high-end advantage that the competition couldn't match, now that they've locked into their new mounts.

[CharlieWebster]

Would the sensor need to be exactly 24x36 for it to be called 'full frame'? After all APS-C is a highly variable 'standard'. They could make it fractionally smaller.

This was my thought as well.

There can't be a big market for this and having a new line of lenses is impractical. But they could do it.

not a big market? The whole professional camera world is at daggers drawn for a short register FF which is more compact than the m9, and can use many different lenses. APS-C is no match for full frame, no matter the rez, simply because a 28 is not a wide angle and when you go to the true wides they are slow and give extra distortion.

the nex would never be so famous without the mount which can take anything with an adapter.

As to working on the native glass....well it's quite decent for what it is, and the range is covered from 16mm to 210--and there are new sigmas etc. But for the serious, the native glass is moot anyway, because it cannot touch the best manual glass, like the zeiss 18, leica 28 etc. When you compare results between a good fixed lens and the sony stuff...well it's very obvious--especially as you move towards infinity.

For close people shots, the native 16, 24 and 50 are quite good--but all are useless if you want a sharp landscape.

I think the wait for a small FF which can take all our glass will not be long. Then we will have to see how such a camera handles 28mm and wider.

[bakubo]

According to SAR, they wouldn't make Nex FF lenses. That's probably be OK for a lot of people.

This would be an interesting ploy for Sony -- it would give them a high-end advantage that the competition couldn't match, now that they've locked into their new mounts.

That really is an interesting ploy that I don't think any other company has exploited: Make an interchangeable lens camera with no lenses. Seriously though, I assume you mean that a FF NEX buyer would have to buy the NEX/A-mount adapter to use FF A-mount lenses or buy a 3rd party adapter to use old FF manual focus lenses since there would be no FF NEX lenses.

[Vidgamer]

According to SAR, they wouldn't make Nex FF lenses. That's probably be OK for a lot of people.

This would be an interesting ploy for Sony -- it would give them a high-end advantage that the competition couldn't match, now that they've locked into their new mounts.

That really is an interesting ploy that I don't think any other company has exploited: Make an interchangeable lens camera with no lenses.

No native FF lenses....

Seriously though, I assume you mean that a FF NEX buyer would have to buy the NEX/A-mount adapter to use FF A-mount lenses or buy a 3rd party adapter to use old FF manual focus lenses since there would be no FF NEX lenses.

I already use FF lenses on my Nex-5.

[Vidgamer]

Would the sensor need to be exactly 24x36 for it to be called 'full frame'? After all APS-C is a highly variable 'standard'. They could make it fractionally smaller.

This was my thought as well.

There can't be a big market for this and having a new line of lenses is impractical. But they could do it.

not a big market? The whole professional camera world is at daggers drawn for a short register FF which is more compact than the m9, and can use many different lenses.

No, I don't think it's nearly as big as the enthusiast market in general, and it is dwarfed by the soccer-mom market, etc. It's a specialty camera. One has to wonder if they can even make money on something like an A900 or Nex 9! Supposedly the auto manufacurers lose money making high-end cars like the Corvette, NSX, etc., but they do it because it helps the brand at large and gives people the confidence that the company can make a high end product and maybe some of that will trickle down to lower end products.

APS-C is no match for full frame, no matter the rez, simply because a 28 is not a wide angle and when you go to the true wides they are slow and give extra distortion.

The 16mm on my Nex-5 is wider than a 28mm on a FF. Distortion is pretty low, really. Maybe it's a bit slow for a prime, but how fast do you need it? It makes up for it with the Nex's high-ISO capability and the convenience.

the nex would never be so famous without the mount which can take anything with an adapter.

Famous to enthusiasts maybe, but not to the camera buying public at large. Most people are going to use native lenses.

As to working on the native glass....well it's quite decent for what it is, and the range is covered from 16mm to 210--and there are new sigmas etc. But for the serious, the native glass is moot anyway, because it cannot touch the best manual glass, like the zeiss 18, leica 28 etc. When you compare results between a good fixed lens and the sony stuff...well it's very obvious--especially as you move towards infinity.

I have no doubt that there is a small minority that love using manual lenses on the Nex and get great results out of it. For me, I'm willing to take a slight compromise much of the time for convenience. And sometimes I use an old Minolta lens which just seems to be magic.

For close people shots, the native 16, 24 and 50 are quite good--but all are useless if you want a sharp landscape.

Why is that? By the way, what do you think of David's recent comparison?

I think the wait for a small FF which can take all our glass will not be long. Then we will have to see how such a camera handles 28mm and wider.

[01af]

Huh!?

All of sudden, everyone is discussing 'the upcoming full-frame NEX'? Where does this flakey rumour come from?

I am pretty much sure there won't be a full-frame Sony NEX ... not next week, not at Photokina, not in any foreseeable future. It simply doesn't make sense. Or rather, it would make perfect sense for photographers, especially for those of us with a closet full of legacy SLR lenses ... but it would not make any sense, technically and economically, for the manufacturer. So better don't hold your breath.

It is expected that Leica will release (umm, or maybe just announce) their next digital M model on the evening before Photokina—i. e. Monday, Sep 17th, 2012—which most likely will be called M10 ... some rumours say the name might be MX or M X. Due to some hints given by a few Leica executives earlier this year, it is expected that the new M model has a full-frame CMOS sensor and a live view feature. If that's true (and I guess it is) then the M10 will be the world's first 35-mm full-frame mirror-less short-register digital camera that can use all kinds of legacy SLR lenses via adapters ... and I guess it's going to be the only one for some time to come. Due to where they're coming from, for Leica it's a natural move. For Sony, it would be wrenched move.