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Re: FF announced

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:49 am
by OneGuyKs
bakubo wrote:
This one they are very different:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#482.366,487.392,472.366,ha,t



And a sensor that is 4 times larger

Re: FF announced

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:36 am
by bakubo
He is much more negative than I had heard from others before, but most of what I have read is by people who are posting about what they have read on the internet and specs.

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2013/10/sony-swings-for-fences-and-ends-up.html

Re: FF announced

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:31 am
by bfitzgerald
Kirk's taking the gloves off a bit lately which is a good thing IMO.
I'm not surprised the design gets mixed reactions, it does look rushed and not well refined.

I am curious why Sony have such a noisy shutter, surely the stealth aspect is lost on such a device.
Anyway, once the dust has settled I think Sony will need a MkII to iron out the quirks.

It might sell ok, but there is no hope of slaying the FF DSLR's of the big 2, no doubt in my mind on that one.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:19 am
by Vidgamer
bakubo wrote:He is much more negative than I had heard from others before, but most of what I have read is by people who are posting about what they have read on the internet and specs.

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2013/10/sony-swings-for-fences-and-ends-up.html


This is about all that he could seem negative about:
If only Sony had gotten the shutter right.....I could live with just about everything else.
That, and some vague "it still looks big with a big lens" observation.

It doesn't seem to be much of a "review", and says little about image quality. But hey, if shutter sound is the most important thing, sure, avoid the camera. I wonder how it compares to some other Sony cameras; Sony seems to have a habit of making loud shutters.

Anyway, you guys just keep trying, and maybe you can find someone on the internet that can find something wrong with the A7/A7r. :mrgreen: Hey, it's not really my bag either, but to only pick at negatives just sounds like sour grapes.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:54 am
by peterottaway
Personally I'm disappointed that none of the usual suspects haven't found something wrong with the camera strap attachments. :mrgreen:

No joke - after so many decades someone should spend a dollar to provide a decent clip or something.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:46 pm
by bakubo
Vidgamer wrote:Anyway, you guys just keep trying, and maybe you can find someone on the internet that can find something wrong with the A7/A7r. :mrgreen: Hey, it's not really my bag either, but to only pick at negatives just sounds like sour grapes.


You obviously haven't read about all that has been written on this forum by people, but have decided to spout off anyway. You are way, way too involved in a large, multinational, corporation love affair and you are just searching for things to be offended about. Sheesh. Lighten up. Please try to enjoy life. I assure you none of these large, multinational, corporations are going to keep you from being lonely at night, share your life experiences, or greet you with love when you walk in the door.

We are talking about inanimate objects that come and go very quickly. If you want to get one of the flavor of the month cameras then go for it and then you can tell us what your experiences are. Now, that would be refreshing and useful. I don't recall if you have ever done that here before or not. If not, then why not surprise us? :)

Re: FF announced

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:47 pm
by bakubo
peterottaway wrote:Personally I'm disappointed that none of the usual suspects haven't found something wrong with the camera strap attachments. :mrgreen:


Actually, I already saw someone on dpreview complaining about them. :lol:

Re: FF announced

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:57 pm
by Vidgamer
peterottaway wrote:Personally I'm disappointed that none of the usual suspects haven't found something wrong with the camera strap attachments. :mrgreen:

No joke - after so many decades someone should spend a dollar to provide a decent clip or something.


Someone on DPR frequently posts that he would prefer the Nex-5 lug attachments -- this allows the lens to hang "down". As it is with most Nex cameras, the camera kind of sits with the lens sticking out or pointing slightly down in the case of a longer lens. In the case of the Nex-6, it's a problem because the eye-start will keep the EVF on and it will drain the battery.

Maybe they did have something right there with the Nex-5.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:19 pm
by Vidgamer
bakubo wrote:
You obviously haven't read about all that has been written on this forum by people, but have decided to spout off anyway. You are way, way too involved in a large, multinational, corporation love affair and you are just searching for things to be offended about. Sheesh. Lighten up. Please try to enjoy life. I assure you none of these large, multinational, corporations are going to keep you from being lonely at night, share your life experiences, or greet you with love when you walk in the door.


I'm not "offended" by your negativity over the A7. It just seems a bit overboard.

Do you really think it's that bad? I'm sure there are redeeming qualities. It's probably a fine camera and maybe some might not consider the loud shutter to be a deal-killer and maybe image quality would be more important.

We are talking about inanimate objects that come and go very quickly. If you want to get one of the flavor of the month cameras then go for it and then you can tell us what your experiences are. Now, that would be refreshing and useful. I don't recall if you have ever done that here before or not. If not, then why not surprise us? :)


Let's hear from anyone about the image quality.

I'm not interested in the A7, so your accusation that I want flavor-of-the-month cameras falls short.

I've posted many photos online over the years.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:48 pm
by bfitzgerald
Lots of stuff to complain about

- Doesn't take A mount lenses - Adaptor required = more cost
- Poor battery life
- No charger provided
- Rear LCD not full articulated
- Partial plastic mount (ie lugs are not metal)
- No IBIS
- No flash built in
- Evidently noisy shutter
- Oddball looks, subjective and maybe not that important to many
- No electronic FC shutter on A7r, slower fps, slower flash sync
- Not that cheap, even the A7 v say a Canon 6d no price advantage

Positives..

+ It's a FF sensor
+ Can use adaptors to fit lenses from many mounts

About all I can think of right now :mrgreen:
Yeah for £899 even I might get interested, but £1300 nah honestly this wasn't the blow you away release some were saying

Re: FF announced

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:34 pm
by Greg Beetham
I think everyone is taking this new threat to the existence of the A-mount a tad too seriously, it probably isn’t much of a threat after all as they are more of a niche camera than in direct competition performance wise or ergonomics wise, and especially with compatible E-mount lenses.
I came to the conclusion after talking and thinking about them that since I couldn’t quite figure out what their ideal niche was (one of them at least) the best thing to do is wait until some really thorough reviews are done and see if the reviewers could illuminate me on how useful they might be for something or other.

I’d be inclined to think that scenic photographers would put the A7r to good use with suitable lenses but that’s about as far as I’ve got, I’m not sure that either of them would make a superior everyday handy cam that is better in all regards to a NEX or a large compact or a bridge or an APS-C DSLR like I already have three of myself.
They might be superior at some individual task perhaps, like the A7r would most likely be for scenic work for instance, I’m not sure what the A7’s forte will turn out to be but all should eventually be revealed with more in depth scrutiny.

I just hope that when a review is finally done they also review the flash system that goes along with the new cameras, how useful the whole package is at various things so to speak. They’ll also have to review with an A-mount adaptor and some A-mount lenses too of course.
Greg

Re: FF announced

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:31 pm
by classiccameras
Greg, I think you make a couple of good points but, take the M/4/3 cameras, Olympus launched the OMD E-M5 and now EM-1 in the hope it would satisfy all the 4/3 DSLR users and keep them on board, but its had the opposite affect, because of the crazy prices it just driven people who want to stay with 4/3 and M/4/3 to Panasonic or back to APS-C where they can get much better value for money. The OMD cameras have become niche product and sales are apparently not that brilliant. Even the Pens are now struggling. I cannot see the A7/R being more than a niche rich mans plaything at the current prices.
I think they have more relevance to some one just starting out who has plenty of money, but they don't entice me to move away from my A mount SLT.
As for the future of A mount, I remain cautiously optomistic.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:46 pm
by bakubo
Vidgamer wrote:I'm not "offended" by your negativity over the A7. It just seems a bit overboard.


As I said, you very obviously haven't seen all that I have posted on this forum about the 7/7r. Therefore, your comment is irrelevant.

It sounds like you are rather angry by what Kirk Tuck wrote, but rather than go get an 7/7r and then write about your thoughts and experiences you just get angry about other people who have gone to that much trouble. The difference between doers and the peanut gallery. How many times have you written stuff about your thoughts and experience using the cameras you have used here on the forum? Maybe you have, but I don't recall any. Some of the people here have done that. I have quite a few times. Barry has done it. Some people provide at least a bit of content and go to some effort to do it. Then there are others who just stop by, make the random comment, and sometimes throw out a bomb or two. Which are you? That is a sincere question.

Re: FF announced

Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:37 am
by Wes Gibbon
bfitzgerald wrote:Yeah for £899 even I might get interested, but £1300 nah honestly this wasn't the blow you away release some were saying


Who were saying that?

Re: FF announced

Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:06 am
by Vidgamer
bakubo wrote:...
It sounds like you are rather angry by what Kirk Tuck wrote, but rather than go get an 7/7r and then write about your thoughts and experiences you just get angry about other people who have gone to that much trouble. The difference between doers and the peanut gallery. How many times have you written stuff about your thoughts and experience using the cameras you have used here on the forum? Maybe you have, but I don't recall any. ...


The last time I bought a (digital) camera, I posted about it here on this forum with my impressions. I've been a contributing poster here for a long time.

As for Kirk, anger has nothing to do with it. You posted the link and I don't think it is all that convincing as an argument against the camera. Did he buy an A7? Sounds like he played with the cameras at a show, unless I'm thinking of another article. And he finds them disappointing because....of the shutter.