Photoclubalpha

As the old comment goes as to whether it is a conspiracy or a stuff up ! It's like car crashes how many are the result of driver error as opposed to faulty design or manufacture by the companies ?

Unless proven otherwise I regard these complaints as the result of crippled users. Even so, given the shocking bit of rubbish that Sony issues as manuals with its cameras, they do deserve a good going over. But that is rather a different argument to those who don't know enough about what they are doing or what effects they will get by doing that. The Korean site SLRclub include with all tests a night time shot of a street light from max aperture to min aperture as a guide ( no I don't read Korean, I just look at the pictures ).

I kind of think along similar lines when doing support for work. If a customer using our complex software reports a problem with some deep obscure feature, how likely is it to be a user error? Most likely, but many times users are quick to not think they can make errors.

If not a user error, how likely is it to be a problem with Microsoft? Not likely,but it is tempting for a developer to not think he can make errors. There's a pattern here.

I was at one of the big Tokyo camera stores again this morning for a few minutes. Once again I handled an A7 and A7r. I realized today what has been in the back of my mind for the last few days since holding them the first time. They remind me very much of 1960s era communist camera design. Think an old Russian Zenit. The very sharp edges with no roll at all. Gives the impression of make it cheaply. Feels strong though. I am not saying this is bad or good. It is just the very distinct feeling I had. With Russia and Putin on the move maybe Sony is predicting a resurgence in their simple, basic industrial design.

The 7 and 7r look like a feeble attempt at retro, mainly because other manufacturers are doing it and Sony don't want to get left behind. Truth is, unlike Olympus, Nikon, Fuji and Pentax, Sony have no legacy to draw on for design. So the 7 is just a general nod in that direction. I have no problem with that, but in doing these retro shaped cameras, you lose some of the ergonomics in handling that the modern DSLR's have evolved into. Olympus got slated for that aspect of the OM-D.
Having said all that, I'm sure the 7 will eventually be a fairly big seller once the Mk2's are out to iron out some of the under development.

I've not handled them so can't really comment much. Zenit yes used a few the basic design was angular but they felt robust enough.
Now we've had all this E mount stuff it remains to be seen what Sony do for A mount.

None of the E mount products really grab me, I care less about looks and more about functionality
I don't really require a tiny body, or a mount adaptor or a camera that doesn't have built in flash (for wireless control)

I think you are right, classiccameras. Sony took inspiration from 1950s and 1960s Soviet design. The A700, A77, A99, NEX 7/6, etc. are all nice, but the A7/7r looks like it is just a rough prototype. I bet the next version loses a lot of the rough edges (in more than one sense).

As an aging cold war warrior, all I can say is Nyet or Nyea or Nyeif you perfer me to less blunt about it.

And I slapping the desk with a slipper and not a shoe.

classiccameras wrote:The 7 and 7r look like a feeble attempt at retro, mainly because other manufacturers are doing it and Sony don't want to get left behind. Truth is, unlike Olympus, Nikon, Fuji and Pentax, Sony have no legacy to draw on for design.

Sony bought out Minolta cameras. Surely they could draw from that legacy if they wanted.

So the 7 is just a general nod in that direction. I have no problem with that, but in doing these retro shaped cameras, you lose some of the ergonomics in handling that the modern DSLR's have evolved into. Olympus got slated for that aspect of the OM-D.
Having said all that, I'm sure the 7 will eventually be a fairly big seller once the Mk2's are out to iron out some of the under development.

Hopefully, they can gain some insights after people use the cameras for a while.

I don't think that Sony is really trying to make the A7 look retro, except for the styling of the EVF where it looks like a prism hump. This doesn't seem to me to be unreasonable. Meanwhile, I wouldn't call it retro without a lot of the other more manual controls you see on other camears.

It does have a bit of retro, not full on Fuji retro but it's there
It's a mix of new and old I think

The design looks "ok" but would really need to handle one, looks bother me less than handling

Saw a young woman, I think she was Chinese, at Ephesus today carrying an A7 + 28-70mm f3.5-5.6. First one I have seen in the wild.