Photoclubalpha

bfitzgerald wrote:It's a massively overlooked area and it's made even worse with the oversized lens designs of late

Very strange

Nothing strange about it: the lens size is not related to the size of the camera body, but to the film/sensor format.
Prime lenses, other than the 90 Macro, are not that big. The 24-70 f4 is compact if you compare it to the 24-70 f2.8 (It is as big as the Minolta 24-85, a little bit heavier because the lens construction) and the 70-200 f4 is also compact if you compare it to the 70-200 f2.8
I have the A7R, that I use for personal projects, and I got the A7S last month that I'm using now on my event's jobs (AF is better in low light and 12MP is what I need, 24 MP is too much...) I don't need a third A7 body.
I think that, at the actual price, the A7 body is perfect for people that want to give their old manual lenses a digital life - don't know if you have any manual focus lenses, or just A-mount lenses.

Barry, you are the type that the marketing and sales people love and consider a prize catch. Selling to people who don't know what they want is hard enough, but selling to someone like you who knows what you want, knows what you don't want and yet have this uncontrollable urge to give them your money for something you don't really want is the gold standard for them. You know you don't want mirrorless, you know why it isn't right for you, yet you just can't control the urge to buy it. The marketers have succeeded with you, I think.

Some people go in with their eye's wide open though and don't get on the marketing hype merry-go-round. They recognize what is good about a camera and system, recognize what isn't so good, filter all of that through the aspects they care about and don't care about, and then decide. The areas where mirrorless is not as good as a DSLR is mostly in areas that I don't care about. I get the stuff I want and get much smaller size and weight (with m4/3 anyway).

I guess you should really think about whether you want to spend your hard-earned money on something you have made clear you don't like.

bakubo wrote:Barry, you are the type that the marketing and sales people love and consider a prize catch. Selling to people who don't know what they want is hard enough, but selling to someone like you who knows what you want, knows what you don't want and yet have this uncontrollable urge to give them your money for something you don't really want is the gold standard for them. You know you don't want mirrorless, you know why it isn't right for you, yet you just can't control the urge to buy it. The marketers have succeeded with you, I think.

Some people go in with their eye's wide open though and don't get on the marketing hype merry-go-round. They recognize what is good about a camera and system, recognize what isn't so good, filter all of that through the aspects they care about and don't care about, and then decide. The areas where mirrorless is not as good as a DSLR is mostly in areas that I don't care about. I get the stuff I want and get much smaller size and weight (with m4/3 anyway).

I guess you should really think about whether you want to spend your hard-earned money on something you have made clear you don't like.

I got the X-M1 from Fujifilm for free as compensation for messing up my X10 repair, I sold that and bought the X-E1 but in effect it cost me nothing at all. Hence the experiment was "risk free". I can't say Fuji made any money off me as they had to pick up the tab for the courier costs on the X10 and gave me an X20 as a replacement (which I sold as I didn't really like it much) then the X-M1 was provided as a "oops we're sorry have this" deal if anything they lost money on that combined I was offered a heavy discount on the X-T1 but declined. I don't mess around any more with makers if I get shoddy service or repairs I splat it about all over the place until I get the problem resolved I'd advise others to do the same regardless of the company or product but only if you have a strong case. The Fuji experiment was worth trying it's simply the form factor of ILC bodies doesn't suit me

It wasn't a waste of time I quite like the sensor (aside from the fake ISO ratings) and I do like the X-E1 warts and all but not enough to invest in the system. I have had a play with some other ILC models, though not recently any Sony ones. An outside shot is the A7 purely because it's full frame no other reason but I'm not unhappy with ASP-C for my needs. I very much doubt marketing and sales people love me much!

If you don't give Canon a go soon, Barry, then it's going to start looking suspicious .

Birma wrote:If you don't give Canon a go soon, Barry, then it's going to start looking suspicious .

Maybe I should buy a Canon send it in for repair then complain until I get a free lens
Being serious I've access to any Canon stuff I could want not a lot of point buying any of it, sensor DR just isn't up to par even on the FF bodies not for my type of shooting

Barry, what was the problem with the X10, was it the orbs, Never noticed that problem on my X10, may be mine was a later batch.

Canon UK are just 4 miles and a ten minute drive from where I live, I took my 450D in as it was over exposing and burning the high lights by almost a full stop ( It was even discussed on the Canon forum so there must have been a problem ) and you shouldn't really have to use - 1.0 all the time, there was a definite problem, they could not fix it saying it was a in built default calibration error and I should buy the 500D as the problem was fixed. What were Canon thinking of, needless to say I got me a low mileage used 550D and I get outstanding IQ just with the STM kit lenses and spot on exposure.

Bit of metal or other substances in the lens camera came back a few weeks later someone had put a dirty big scratch on the front element, that went back and the next repair still had bits in the lens. Next attempt was a refurb that looked like someone has used it as a door stop marks all over the body.

Fuji offered an X20 got that but I really didn't like it the sensor wasn't up to par DR wasn't a patch on the X10 so I got shot of that. I complained to Fuji, got the big ignore from their customer service manager. So I employed my "weapon of mass destruction" facebook approach this was the same strategy that I used on Sony I just hit them all over the place nice photos of the lens with bits in and the dodgy images on the X20 (jpegs are quite awful speckles black dots) Took about 4-5 days of doing that and I got an email from the UK head of service (camera repair) he called me from home offered to either completely re-build me an X10 or give me an X-M1 (or discount on an X-T1) I decided to try the ILC model just for fun. With the funds from the X20 sale I bought another X10 which is why I didn't take him up on that offer.

Some credit to Fuji they did come good eventually but it is quite unacceptable to have to wait months for bodged repairs. I will employ the same strategy with any company that doesn't deliver reasonable service. Quite simple camera goes off gets fixed comes back a few weeks later nobody gets upset. Sadly I have yet to have a good repair experience with any maker Pentax complete fail totally unacceptable, Nikon are timely but can't fix their own product, Sony took ages and ages and felt that was OK they even lost it at one point, Fuji another bad experience. Not many makers left. I would hope Canon would be a lot better than that it would be difficult to be that bad.

I'm not dumping X mount because of the repair I just don't quite like it enough to consider it my cup of tea. Sensor is good no questions about it, lenses are sharp but they are not particularly good in rendering that is a small but to me massive factor. Photography is all about the look and the sensor has nice tonality but the lenses well many of them are poor for bokeh. No point investing in a system (which would cost quite a lot of cash) if you can't warm to the optics.

Some bad experiences there Barry, I remember your on-going problems with the A57, I have to concur, the X10 sensor is superb and they really haven't improved on it with the X20 or X30 certainly not for IQ. If it aint broke don't fix it.

Honestly I tested the X20 and was very unimpressed so much so I wouldn't go near an X30. X10 can handle difficult light up to a good APS-C sensor DR wise and it does pretty well in low light too, X Trans was not nearly as good DR was very mediocre and the images in low light showed de-saturation significant. If the X10 dies I would not replace it with either of those models.

X Trans is good for APS-C not that size sensor though. Maybe if they do a 1" sensor it might work out better. I will keep a decent compact around as it's useful to have when I don't want the DSLR's around. Hence I find ILC's near enough redundant for my needs. Hang onto that X10 it's still a decent camera

pakodominguez wrote:

pakodominguez wrote:

bfitzgerald wrote: The obvious next experiment in a FF ILC

you can get the original A7 for 1300$ new (probably a bit more in EU/UK).

I saw today the A7 is at 1198 $
no one tempted?
sure?

A7 is now under 1000$
http://www.adorama.com/ISOA7KS.html (and Adorama add some goddies on top of that)

That is certainly a great price. For people who have some beloved old MF lenses then this should be such a nice way to use them again. Manual focus with peaking, FF, and a body that is sort of reminiscent of old 1960s and 1970s SLRs.

It's not a bad price if it tumbles even more then it could be worth a look shame the Sony LA-EA4 isn't as cheap as it might be it's about the same price as an A58 which is hard to work out as it's just a module not a camera

I do have a lot of FF lenses, but I'd rather have a DSLR shape body to put them on and one that takes the same battery too. Small points but ones that add up

The ideal thing for you is to get a new or used A900/A850. Maybe pick up a couple. You get the OVF you want and a great body. Might last you for the next 8-10 years.

I have considered that the A900/A850 have tumbled in price s/h though I'm not sure if they can be repaired. Still a good one might be worth a look not the best high ISO but 3200 is usable and I rarely need higher

bakubo wrote:The ideal thing for you is to get a new or used A900/A850. Maybe pick up a couple. You get the OVF you want and a great body. Might last you for the next 8-10 years.

Some good price for a900 and a850
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/8 ... gital.html