PMA 2009

[bfitzgerald]

Be careful what you ask for! 16mp sounds fun..but 16mp surely leads to 18mp, then to 20mp
And at that level you will surely find many lenses struggling to hold up
If you want to ask for something, ask for a 1.25 crop factor..that will at least hold things off for a while.
This pointless mp war isn't any good for anybody, so much more to IQ than pixels alone. 16mp FF yes, that sounds nice..but 16mp APS-C, no thanks..

[pakodominguez]

Be careful what you ask for! 16mp sounds fun..but 16mp surely leads to 18mp, then to 20mp
And at that level you will surely find many lenses struggling to hold up
If you want to ask for something, ask for a 1.25 crop factor..that will at least hold things off for a while.
This pointless mp war isn't any good for anybody, so much more to IQ than pixels alone. 16mp FF yes, that sounds nice..but 16mp APS-C, no thanks..

I like the idea of a 16/18 MP FF chip!
I don't think a 1.25 crop factor is viable -and I don't know if a 16/18 MP FF is viable either :-/

[alphaomega]

bfitzgerald wrote - in response to my wish list consisting of an A700 16 Mp upgrade :

Be careful what you ask for! 16mp sounds fun..but 16mp surely leads to 18mp, then to 20mp
And at that level you will surely find many lenses struggling to hold up
If you want to ask for something, ask for a 1.25 crop factor..that will at least hold things off for a while.
This pointless mp war isn't any good for anybody, so much more to IQ than pixels alone. 16mp FF yes, that sounds nice..but 16mp APS-C, no thanks..

I really think it will be just a question of time before one of the DSLR players will introduce a viable 16 Mp APS-C sensor so why not Sony? The Canon 50D is perhaps not yet in that category. I have been greatly impressed by the capabilities of my Panasonic LX3 with a 1/1.63" sensor and remarkable image results from it. It will not stand up to 100% scrutiny at higher ISOs but then it has a much smaller sensor than those fitted to APS-C cameras. A Sony APS-C 1.5 crop sensor would still have larger photosites than the Canon 50D at 1.6 crop. I fancy Nikon might make a good job of such a Sony sensor if the rumours about a D400 with a Sony 16 Mp sensor are solid. The Panasonic G1 with 12 Mp has had good write-ups but is too expensive for what it is and a very limited lens offering.

Having recently migrated from MD film through R1 to A700/350 I have fallen in love with the APS-C system and the DOF provided. It may have made me lazier with regards to DOF control, but also made it easier to get good low ISO results. I have read the A900 reports and think this is a great camera despite the D3X comparisons but I have no intention of upgrading. A good 16 Mp APS-C DSLR will do me fine. I am prepared to wait for Sony to deliver the goods.

[alphaomega]

Forgot to add that bfitzgerald does have a point with regard to the ability of many lenses to resolve 16 Mp in an APS-C size sensor.

[David Kilpatrick]

Well, Canon users have a chance to find out, as the 50D has a smaller sensor (1.6X) of 15.X megapixels - the same density as a 16 megapixel Sony or Nikon size sensor would be.

David

[stevecim]

Just pondering a bit on the question of the evolution of DSLR's, I wonder how many of those with LV type DSLR's use them in LV mode while NOT on a tripod?? and if so, with what lens??

Hi Greg, with the a350, I'm starting to use LV more and more, great for over head shots from the back of a crowd and with a 300mm lens I find it easier to hold the camera steady at waist heigh, looking down onto the tilted up LCD screen for longer periods then holding the a350 at eye level. I don't have a 300 f2.8. . Also the LV is great for kids, my 8 year old had a ball using the a350 + 70-300mm Tamron took some good hand held action shots at seaworld even my 3 year took a few OK pics using LV and 50mm 1.7 hand held. Sony should do some marketing around their LV and kids taking photos. It's a growing market, more and more kids are into photos, sure most use phones but every sale helps

[bakubo]

I don't have LV in my A700 and it is not something that I am waiting with bated breath for, but if it was available in an A700 update along with other improvements then I would like to have it. It would have to have the tilt LCD like in the A350/A300 though. I wouldn't use it often, but it would be good sometimes while shooting on the street. I would like to, occasionally, be able to have the camera not up to my eye when I try to get a candid shot. Don't care much about the video mode though. I have it in my digicams but rarely use it. Having said that, I am quite good. Please note the wonderful plot, character development, outstanding use of light and camera angles in these two.

Waikiki on Thanksgiving Day 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs0HarAXvNk

Studying Japanese in Tokyo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2ckkZXN50

[Greg Beetham]

Wow Henry, that was deadly.
Greg

[Greg Beetham]

Just pondering a bit on the question of the evolution of DSLR's, I wonder how many of those with LV type DSLR's use them in LV mode while NOT on a tripod?? and if so, with what lens??

Hi Greg, with the a350, I'm starting to use LV more and more, great for over head shots from the back of a crowd and with a 300mm lens I find it easier to hold the camera steady at waist heigh, looking down onto the tilted up LCD screen for longer periods then holding the a350 at eye level. I don't have a 300 f2.8. . Also the LV is great for kids, my 8 year old had a ball using the a350 + 70-300mm Tamron took some good hand held action shots at seaworld even my 3 year took a few OK pics using LV and 50mm 1.7 hand held. Sony should do some marketing around their LV and kids taking photos. It's a growing market, more and more kids are into photos, sure most use phones but every sale helps

Hi mate,
yes you've got a point, using lightish lenses LV would probably be quite ok, I was just making a point of how awkward it might be using industrial grade lenses held out in front without a tripod, I guess as David says you can always find something too rest the thing on....the head of the spectator in front or such.
Greg

[peterottaway]

There is a new posting on The Luminous Landscape with the Canon 50D 15 MP sensor and David's less than favourite 24 - 105 lens. All I can say if a lens the cost of the 24 - 105 doesn't perform well, what hope for Canon users with plastic fantastic lenses.

And a Happy New Year to all.

[PhotoTraveler]

Still it comes down to this.

LV is a tech mainly for entry level bodies. And thus the big lens issues aren't much there.

Entry Level body users are used to shooting with P&S using the rear screen, it's their natural way of shooting.

Entry Level OVFs are pretty worthless, not as pointless as an OVF on a P&S, but still not good. I'm a huge fan of OVFs and really don't like EVFs at all.....butttttttttt.... Given the option of having a tiny OVF like any penta mirror camera has, or having an EVF in there, I'd take the EVF (I'm talking about the kind you put your eye too, not using the rear screen). That setup gives you a good view finder on a cheap camera.

You aren't going to see many 2.8/300Gs put on an A200. And certainly not hand held, so not an issue about shooting at arms length.

On higher end bodies, the main use I see for LV is for doing tethered shooting. Other than that, it's not a thing I'm that all interested in. So far this looks to be Sony's path. Of course they could always shock us all and introduce Pro Bodies in 2010 that are EVILs. Who knows.

Still, if Sony brings an A500 for 1K that is basically a re-born A700. And then brings an "A400" which has no OVF, but has a good LV and EVF setup, and similar feature set, they can sell that for 1K, and let consumers decide which they value.

[PhotoTraveler]

The 24-105 isn't that expensive. They don't give them away, but it is well priced. It is a kit lens afterall.

He could have a less than great one too, it's a rather hit and miss lens. Some people find it very good, others not.

Still, I think for most people they will manage fine. But I will say that as pixel counts rise on APS cameras, I think you will see a need for APS only lenses grow. As the writer went through, the 50D is very dense, and would scale to scary numbers. So it's much harder than even what we see on a 14MP APS body in Sony-Nikon-Pentax land. Clearly the next step for Sony will be APS bodies in the 14-16MP range (they are all ready knock on it with A350). And the next generation after that will be 20MP (it's only a matter of time till 20MP comes to APS).

This is where lenses like the 16-80ZA become more important and you might see even more high quality APS lenses. Simply to give APS shooters something to work with. Maybe we will see 4/16-70DT G in time to be the APS brother of the 4/24-105G that should be coming. As they make lenses to really handle this, they may need to go to APS lenses to keep the cost down. When the "A710" comes out, I'm still with A mount, and for some reason decide to buy another APS body, I will almost certainly just buy a 16-80, or what ever they might have then, I won't even try to think old minolta lenses, or tamron based FF stuff is going to get me the most out of it.

I definitely think Sony has to be bringing a 18-70 replacement simply so their bodies don't get spanked in reviews. The 18-70 kills them as is. They need something better for 14MP A350, and 16MP "A710" and such. This lens doesn't need to be awesome, just push the bar up some.

One thing we don't know is if they are limited on lenses. Not the lenses we have. But is there a really issue in doing better on new lenses. The lenses we have may simply have just not planned for this kind of rez. Or they simply did their costing and decided they only need to do so much this round on the lens, and will come back in a few years and kick things up some more as needed. They might be able to match the bodies just fine for not much cost. After all, no point making a lens too good. You just want to make it good enough for a period of time so you can sell them a new lens later. After all, what is Canon to do with their lenses that have VR/IS and AFS-USM? They need to find a way to get you to buy that lens again in 5-10 years. And with no new tech, all they can do is go for sharpness and such for handling higher resolution bodies.

I think they will be able to handle this better than people think. They probably all have 50-100 year plans like any Japanese company, and it's probably pretty detailed for the next 10 years and very detailed for the next 5 with the biography for every lens and body all ready written.

Also remember, around the time they hit 20-25MP on APS bodies, they might no longer be putting flapping mirrors in front of the sensor on APS bodies. Get rid of retrofocal and now you got a simpler lens, less elements, more sharpness.

[Greg Beetham]

You know I wouldn't mind betting that Sony etc. are watching and gauging the acceptance of the LV type DSLR'S against the more traditional types very closely to see if that line is worth developing more thoroughly...maybe even a shallow body (a la Panasonic) mirror-less LV-EVF style along with a new smaller mount and a decent handful of conveniently sized ssm lenses...and if they could make it for a reasonable price and have the battery last for a decent amount of time, then they might sell quite a lot of them.
Still might be a bit of a gamble in these economic times though, what with the amount of people loosing their jobs etc. people without jobs aren't going to be thinking about buying a fairly expensive camera of any type..........now if Wall St. hadn't burnt a couple of Trillion dollars.....
Greg

[A1000]

This is how Sony operates: It makes several variations of each model. So there will be 3 entry level models, then two advanced APS-C and two FF, with a pro FF in the future with high speed shutter. As Sony is expanding the line up, it will be expanding it down too. No OVF and digital image stabilization would mean one extremely inexpensive camera, especially if it would be without many mechanical parts -switches, etc., for bad economic times. A simple body with plastic mount, plain touch screen interface, no mechanical IS, basically a peace of plastic with screen in the back, could be made for a minute fraction of what it costs to make A200. It would take decent pictures. Between this and A200 camera type could be models with more features, without OVF.

There will be 5 series - I mean series, not cameras:
- one w/o OVF
- one with OVF
one advanced APS-C
one FF
one pro FF

Realize that Sony will eventually have more than one model in each series.

Sony will use its LV in more expensive models; it gives them a serous edge over their competition; it will use to its advantage that it costs tham less to get FF sensoors than Nikon, etc. and will expand the FF series down.

[bfitzgerald]

I really hope we don't get back into the super budget SLR days of old. Dynax 300si springs to mind, just about everything ripped out you could even think of! left you with program/scene modes only...not my idea of fun. Whilst I like to bag a deal, I avoided the super cut down film bodies like the plague.