Christmas Spirit

Show everyone the latest shots which make you feel dead chuffed with your camera choice
Forum rules
No more than three images or three external links allowed in any post or reply. Please trim quotations and do not include images in quotes unless essential.
aster
Tower of Babel
Posts: 6048
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:33 pm

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by aster »

jbtaylor wrote:Hey aster, one more shot from the 14mm. I still have trouble getting the perspective correct.
Hi Jbtaylor, :D

Thank you.
This is exacatly what I was afraid of: the distortions to be rather difficult to correct. Especially the ceiling rose which is visibly distorted might be very hard to recover with good and eye-pleasing proportions. Maybe shooting subjects with rectilinear elements make things easier but circles in perspectives are hard.

If you ever find some results that you think are reasonably worth mentioning please let us know.

Thanks for going to all this trouble! :)

Yildiz
jbtaylor
Emperor of a Minor Galaxy
Posts: 1514
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:50 pm
Location: Maryland USA
Contact:

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by jbtaylor »

The first and last shots of the Christmas tree in my original post were taken with the 14mm. This one is as well.

Image

This was hand held with the 7D so it is iso 1600 and much noisier. However, the distortion is more pleasing. The trick is to be centered. Objects of importance that are to the sides of the image end up distorted. Some say PP work can fix it. I have no idea.

Two more examples that are off topic.

Image

Image
JT
David Kilpatrick
Site Admin
Posts: 5985
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Kelso, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

Here's a post I've put up on the Lens forum about the 14mm Tamron - does yours also say it is 15mm in the EXIF data?

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/forum/vie ... =27&t=1571

Gives some further pointers on minimising apparent distortion, but it's all on the 7D so really cropped - the distortion would be so much more visible on full frame.

David
aster
Tower of Babel
Posts: 6048
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:33 pm

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by aster »

jbtaylor wrote:The first and last shots of the Christmas tree in my original post were taken with the 14mm. This one is as well.

This was hand held with the 7D so it is iso 1600 and much noisier. However, the distortion is more pleasing. The trick is to be centered. Objects of importance that are to the sides of the image end up distorted. Some say PP work can fix it. I have no idea.
JT
Thanks jbtaylor,

Centered shooting does the trick for these shots and as David Kilpatrick's new thread on Tamron 14mm 2.8 also proves. But I'll be the odd one in for a while and say that I like the distorted images also. Like the last one you posted which I actually enjoyed. These distortions when created intentionally add more of an architectural and artistic value. Anyone who is an avid painter or loves hand-drawing sketches of streets and buildings see these lines that meet in infinity in a different way. They add an exciting and creative look...I am one of those who like linear distortions to a certain degree.

This last photo need not be editted at all in my taste... :D

Yildiz
aster
Tower of Babel
Posts: 6048
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:33 pm

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by aster »

........
Last edited by aster on Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
David Kilpatrick
Site Admin
Posts: 5985
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Kelso, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

Strong distortions are fine in any w/a image and balanced converging verticals are no problem. The real problems are distortion of circles/faces/spheres towards the edges, and slight misalignment of horizons, centre lines, symmetry or balance. Many wide angle shots fail because the image does not look as if it is balanced to the eye - it appears to be leaning maybe 5 degrees or so. If you make it lean 45 degrees or 30 degrees, no problem - the effect is great, powerful vanishing point energy. What you don't want is a building which just seems no to have been shot straight, or a leaning room.

So if you want convergence, go for an exact centre position, if you have an asymmetric composition, it must be balanced in weight and angles. Here's an example (from the Nikon D3X, sorry, at ISO 800, 24mm - in camera JPEG, shooting last week):

Image

http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/image/107490026 for the original up to full size. I don't think this in-camera ISO 800 is any better than the A900, and the sky noise is strong.

Here, the angle of the plinth of Wellington's statue had to correctly balance the angle of the Balmoral Hotel tower. If the tower had been made vertical, or the plinth made horizontal, the picture would be tipping over. I think that working on seeing your viewfinder as a frame is essential to get angles right. It was always much easier to do this with a waist-level camera like the Hasselblad, looking at a viewing screen. I think it is easier to do with Live View as well, but of course for a shot like this, I used the viewfinder. I have hardly used LV at all on the Nikon, there are so few times when it is needed or fast enough.

David
David Kilpatrick
Site Admin
Posts: 5985
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Kelso, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

Sonolta wrote:This is a bit surprising since live view can be used to pretty good effect on static landscapes and you do seem to shoot a lot of those.
-Sonolta
The landscapes may be static but I am not, and nor are the people in the 'landscapes'. I do not do much pure landscape photography, I shoot more urban scenes than countryside. Observation and timing are important, and sometimes the camera must not appear to be in use, it's a matter of lifting to the eye and shooting very quickly to avoid the wrong reactions. When out shooting scenics, I may 'chase the light' a lot, and that can involve driving a couple of hundred miles but only stopping for seconds to take each shot. The shot just shown is an example - the light was changing/fading so fast I had to run through crowds to get several pictures I wanted with the floodlighting perfectly balanced against the sky and ground light levels. A tripod would have been impossible (even just standing in this position for a few seconds caused enough people to have to push others to get round me).

I left the fairground midway down Princes Street at 16:09 and shot 14 different subject views before 16:20, all within about 1/2 mile allowing for various road crossings/returns to find to correct camera positions. That's about one shot every 40 seconds average. By 16:22 the light had faded so much there was no longer any sky colour to work with; before 15:50 the sky was to bright for the earlier shots of the big wheel, Christmas markets, skaters, city lights etc. Whole shoot - 15:29 left mall, paused to take first shots in (open) shopping street and immediately accosted by a security guard saying the management did not want photography outside their shops. Told him exactly where he stood legally on this ("Is this a public street?" - "Yes" - "Then it doesn't matter what the management says, you can't stop me taking photographs" - goodbye!). Took 92 shots in the next hour, with fifteen minutes break for essential shopping, walked about two miles back and forth.

Most live view DSLR users, I think, would not try to use hand-held mode on the D3X in these circumstances (nor would it really help in any way with the shots). The firing delay is so long that action shots can not be timed, while the normal response of the D3X is superb - shots can be timed perfectly. Here's one at 6400 - and the A900 would not manage anything as clean or resolve the links on the seat's chain:

Image
http://upload.pbase.com/image/107496207

Back to Christmas spirit, and to getting the angle of wide-angle convergence right, too!

Re A900/D3X - the Image Reports examples have been widely discussed and criticised/praised variously. At ISO 800, in practice there's not much between the cameras and the peculiar effects on the D3X JPEG need more study. I would use the A900 with confidence in the same situation. At 6400, different matter, but I would expect to see much stronger colour. This is also getting a lot of discussion by early D3X buyers - the Hi settings on the camera, clearly marked that way by Nikon to show that they are beyond the normal performance limits, drop the colour saturation dramatically.

And re macro - I've never done much insect etc stuff, don't really live in the right place. I used to do specialised engineering and scientific macro photography at magnifications up to 25X and had the full range of gear - XM (XK) system with high magnification finder and graticle screen, Minolta Auto Bellows with movements, 100mm lens head, 50mm macro, 25mm and 12.5mm Minolta micro lenses, focusing rails, illuminated bench with vernier control to position subjects and cold light sources, subject table with crossed polarisers - the lot. Today I am sure LV would be part of the setup but I would not use the camera rear screen because it would be above eye-level, have to stand on a chair to look down on it. I would use the LV HDTV viewing mode, focus on something like a 22 inch TV/monitor. But no-one is wanting images of power station ash or the crystalline structure of failed metal parts from me now.

David
David Kilpatrick
Site Admin
Posts: 5985
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Kelso, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

Don, Live View is great - yes - but not on the D3X for this type of subject. It does not have a tilting screen, it has a pretty clunky mirror sequence for AF in hand-held mode, and it can not be compared to using - say - the old KM A2 where I can rely on live view, and the rear screen, for many street shots and candids. I am only talking about not using the Nikon LV much. If this camera was a Panasonic G1 I would be using the rear screen LV much of the time. Even with the Oly E-3, which does not have a perfect handheld focus system, I used LV a fair amount. Borrow a D3 or a D3X and you'll find out, it really is not a system intended for field use without a tripod.

Flora, abstracts, textures etc - most of that isn't macro, it's just close ups, 'macro lens' stuff. The real value of LV as Nikon implement it is for higher magnifications, bellows work - where regular AF can't function and the eye can not be trusted through an optical viewfinder.

David
jbtaylor
Emperor of a Minor Galaxy
Posts: 1514
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:50 pm
Location: Maryland USA
Contact:

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by jbtaylor »

David,
Thanks for the post about the lens. Yes, it does show as 15mm in the exif.
It is good to know that there is good potential for this lens when I upgrade to the a900. I was beginning to think about letting it go.
JT
User avatar
Dr. Harout
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
Posts: 5662
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Contact:

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by Dr. Harout »

jbtaylor wrote:David,
Thanks for the post about the lens. Yes, it does show as 15mm in the exif.
It is good to know that there is good potential for this lens when I upgrade to the a900. I was beginning to think about letting it go.
JT
JT, you don't really need that lens in FF. Just think, getting that wide worth nothing. Better throw that lens... BTW, do you want me to PM you my address :lol:
A99 + a7rII + Sony, Zeiss, Minolta, Rokinon and M42 lenses

Flickr
David Kilpatrick
Site Admin
Posts: 5985
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Kelso, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

Sonolta wrote: Anyway, try stretching you neck strap taught and using the rear screen as the technique works well on many subjects.
-Sonolta
That's where the sheer size and weight of the D3X works against you. You can take a few shots like that, but it gets really heavy on the hands when held out that way. Also, for me - and this is just personal - I have around 1.75 dioptre short sight, and very limited accommodation now - in forty years, I've gone from being able to focus my eyes to four inches to infinity, to being able to focus from 12 inches to ten feet. Photography often depends on seeing stuff further away than ten feet very clearly, so I generally wear my driving/outdoor specs. With those on, I could not focus on a screen held on a short strap, I would have to shove my specs down my nose or stick them over my eyebrows. I can work with a camera held at relaxed arm's length with or without my specs, but not closer.

I did some shooting with the Nikon D90 video, and rather less with the Canon 5D MkII video, both of which have to be held that way. It's not too bad, but they are both much lighter cams. I reckon if they had put HD video in the D3X, the camera would have been too heavy for the usual way people shoot. One of the new shoulder stocks being made for video-DSLR work would be essential.

Annoyed tonight, just discovered that the D3X uses a full size HDMI connector! The Canon and the A900 use mini-HDMI, so I ordered a mini-HDMI before Christmas. I don't have a regular cable and they do not provide one. So tomorrow I must get a standard HDMI-HDMI cable. And maybe a 42 inch LG 1080p 100Hz TV. I've been waiting, getting dozens of email offers every week, and you check them and find they are all 720p or 50Hz - not of interest! Can't afford the Sony with the right specs, but the LG is pretty good and it is down to £599. So tomorrow, time to check out the TV stores again. Of course by 2010 they will all be 200Hz and Freesat so maybe I won't buy yet, and will just keep using the little 22 inch HDTV (720p looks fine on that) for checking out cameras. And waiting for the D700X/800 or whatever it is called with full frame and HD video to try - or the next Sony. Who knows.

David
David Kilpatrick
Site Admin
Posts: 5985
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Kelso, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

We didn't have a choice - analog TV signals cut off entirely from the region in November. We were the UK test region for digital-only. So all our old bedroom TVs became useless, and we have an eight-room distribution from the aerial but no real way of installing some of the new stuff which lets you put a digital receiver in the roof and control it from the sets. Each room will need its own set-top box, or a digital TV. So far we just bought one, the 22 inch, and we onyl got that because the whole switchover was messed up in a big way. People with existing digital receivers and sets were unable to get channels, it took them two weeks to get all the transmitters running properly, and there's a whole list of Sony TVs which still can not be auto tuned to the new digital bands - including our main TV. It had to be manually tuned to receive anything at all, but we found that out; the changeover people were saying we would need a new TV or wait for Sony's firmware updates. We were also sold a new Thomson recorder/tuner which would not receive anything properly, broken up images, no sound etc. We got the 22 inch Sanyo and guess what - same aerial socket, tuned in 85 channels in two or three minutes all perfect. Took the recorder back (we were the first buyer, they were unpacking them when I bought) swapped it for a Daewoo which worked straight off. Then we learned later, the Thomson and loads of new tuners do not work with the new digital bands they plan to set up for the UK.

Everyone thought their 2007-2008 digital TVs and tuners and stuff would be fine as the roll out the changeover, but that is not so. Many of them just won't work any more, or will only get a few channels. Don't know if the US has had any similar experiences but here, being used as a guinea-pig area and the first to go all digital in Britain, we had big problems and people got very angry. We could afford a new TV, lots could not - or they had pre-bought, anticipating the change, and already spent their money - then found their purchase would not work.

David
User avatar
Birma
Tower of Babel
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:10 pm

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by Birma »

David Kilpatrick wrote:... People with existing digital receivers and sets were unable to get channels, it took them two weeks to get all the transmitters running properly, and there's a whole list of Sony TVs which still can not be auto tuned to the new digital bands - including our main TV. It had to be manually tuned to receive anything at all, but we found that out; the changeover people were saying we would need a new TV or wait for Sony's firmware updates. ...
This does not bode well for the rest of the UK switch over. I had assumed my 2007 digital HDTV (Sony of course :D ) would be fine and that I wouldn't even notice the switch off of the analogue broadcast. I didn't realise they would change the exisiting digital bands at the same time. I can imagine people being very angry, as you say, if their newish kit suddenly doesn't work after they have been pushing us for years to "Switch to Digital".

I suppose there is a chance that the broadcasters may learn lessons from the first region switching over :? .
Nex 5, Nex 6 (IR), A7M2, A99 and a bunch of lenses.
David Kilpatrick
Site Admin
Posts: 5985
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Kelso, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

Your 2007 model may be OK. Sony have a list of the affected models. Our 2005 WEGA Trinitron digital (65 kilos we can't work out how to move as it has already broken the castors off its TV stand) is clearly a bit older, and could still be tuned in to a dozen or more channels manually, a time-consuming job which Shirley tackled. We have two twin-tuner digital tuner/recorders attached to it, one Digihome which is a couple of years old and receives most channels; and one Daewoo which is brand new (though it's a very old-fashioned design) and this receives all possible channels. So, we can get all the coverage, but only by using the attached HD recorder tuners.\

I did not get my LG 42 inch yesterday. They sold out on Boxing Day apparently, that's what happens when a £999 set is reduced to £530. We checked one over and it's stunningly good with true 1080p and 100Hz plus PC input, USB, Bluetooth, 3 HDMIs etc. Had there been any left I would gone for it and attached my old Mac mini with its wireless keyboard, ideal for storing a huge library of photos - just need to convert the library in bulk to sRGB 1920 pixels wide. I'm still more interested in the Sony models because they offer navigation round large photos direct from USB or DVD - zooming in at 100% on Alpha 900 shots and scrolling round... and of course the Currys 'sales' staff have no idea whether the LG offers any such controls.

David
User avatar
bakubo
Tower of Babel
Posts: 5875
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:55 am
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Christmas Spirit

Unread post by bakubo »

Sonolta wrote:All of our analog signals are cutoff on Feb. 17!
In Hawaii it is Jan. 15:

http://www.dtv.gov/Hawaii/index.html

Since last year there have been public service announcements on TV over and over and over warning people. :)
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 40 guests