Dyxum Owner Not Pleased With Sony Alpha Line Progress & Inno

[KevinBarrett]

It doesn't surprise me that somebody who is serious about photographers tools is disappointed with Sony right now. They're taking the unenviable position as the "User Friendly & Competitively Priced" camera in the market place. Serious photographers are less sensitive to the price of their equipment than unfamiliar beginners, and Sony would seem to be diving into an unreached, price-sensitive share of the market.

[DonSchap]

Are we descending into the void of disappointment? I often wonder why the manufacturer does not queue in on the boards like these. Why not ask the masses, "Hey, what do you guys want?"

[Heidfirst]

imo because "we" represent a very small, opiniated (but admittedly sometimes influential beyond our size) part of the market.
By providing us with what we want we get a Lotus rather than a Ford & an appropriate market share ... that's not what Sony (or CaNikon) are in business for.

[Dusty]

It can be argued that CaNikon can do all that because of their market share. Market share means money for R&D, better sales of more numerous lenses, the ability to fill market niches with low sales number bodies that have special features.

If Sony is serious about delivering, they may feel that first they have to go with the bodies that will drive sales, even if they are not the ones we want. If they also produce a very affordable FF camera, they can drive a lot of people to their FF system, and justify the production of more FF glass.

I don't know if this is what they are doing, but it may be.

Dusty

[bossel]

I don't know if this is what they are doing, but it may be.

It may be, it may be not. It's all a question of attitude. Do you see the glass half full or half empty? Endless whining how bad Sony is and how great Nikon doesn't advance us.

Not a bad strategy to bring the 850 now. Get the early adopters to pay for the A900 and later go get the rest.
Not a bad strategy to take point and shooters into the Sony world with a A2xx/3xx and some of them will upgrade later.

I don't know what A5xx will look like but what I know for sure is that half the board will be outraged

[bossel]

yawn - more whining

[braeside]

Don, I must say I agree with you on your list of bad ideas. Let's just hope Sony wake up soon.

[destrianlives]

Ya know... maybe Sony knows they need marketshare first before they can start acting like Canon or Nikon. Maybe they feel that if they put enough hi quality dslr's into newbies hands they figure that all the have to tell the newbie is the camera is something you can grow with - so when your ready to move up all you have to do is purchase some of our zeiss glass. If I were a newbie and I started with an A850 at 2k and a single Zeiss 24-70 and a decent flash I'd feel ready to assist confidently any wedding or portrait shooter out there. Then when I built up enough I'd get another lens like a 70-200 F2.8 SSM or the 135mm F1.8 Zeiss or even the 16-35mm F2.8. The thing I'm now thinking is that Sony wants to put a Strong DSLR in many newbies' bags so in the long term the newbie will go out and purchase a great lens. Having a great lens kinda nails you into a system. I guess this may be a long term move for Sony. They possibly have some killer stuff set in a Sony Alpha A700 replacement and could be some 9 months away from the announcement of an A900 upgrade or replacement (thinking 18 month product cycle). For all we know built in SSD, wifi, gps, and video could all be coming. So though I'm confused at what Sony is doing... I can see some possibilities. They may very well be retooling the entire product line. The A850 may even be the Harbinger of change for them like the 5D was for Canon. Remember, the 5D sold VERY WELL for the pro market while the 20D and 30D kicked ass! How long was the 5D sold before a retooling? 3 years! Maybe the A850 is the Sony 5D. Also remember what the 5D did for Canon... it sold them a lot of GLASS / Nailed more people into the system!

[BigRich]

I don't know what A5xx will look like but what I know for sure is that half the board will be outraged

No doubt! I don't know why there is so much angst over what Sony's future marketing plans are. You have a good camera now, so why the lack of confidence for future releases that are still not even officially announced? Isn't your current camera good enough? Is it not taking good pictures? Why not be happy with what you have and worry about the future only if you need to?

[Greg Beetham]

Bodies smodies...don't care all 'that' much about bodies as long as there is a quality body in the range at a reasonable price with the features it should have for a enthusiast/pro user. What I do care about is lenses or the lack thereof. Like I said previously where are the mid range lenses? the ones in the AU$600-$1500 range not the ones in the $3000-$12000 range that Sony likes so much, but are very thin on the ground anyway.
What about a range of HQ travel lenses, f2.8's thru f4's...not f1.4 and f1.8 CZ's that weigh a ton, even the new 70-300G that presumably replaces the KM100-300APO is probably about twice the weight and price and I'm not sure you would get twice the image quality from it.
APS-C needs a 35mm f2 prime, (not eveyone can afford that overpriced 35mm 1.4G that has CA anyway), but make the thing in FF so it has a dual purpose.
An 24mm f2 prime wouldn't hurt either.
As previously mentioned, now that Sony are ostensibly going to release an affordable FF camera, people who buy it will need to have some lenses for it for general photography, like the KM17-35 f2.8-4 and the KM28-75 f2.8 ie. good mid-upper quality lenses that don't cost the earth, and are ideal for general photography, Sony don't have any such lenses in their range.
What about a 150mm macro ? and even a 200mm macro...
No replacement for the 200mm f2.8 G yet. (that one might be out of my price range)
And where is the 400mm f4.5 prime?
PT or David might be able to come up with some others.
If Sony wants the newbs to 'graduate' to the next rung on the ladder, it would be a good idea to get some middle through semi advanced lenses into the range, I think you can judge how serious Sony is by their performance in lens making and stocking, not so much body making.
Greg

ps. Rant over.

oops no it isn't...WHEN IS SONY GOING TO FIX THE MACRO FLASH SYSTEM!

Now it's over.

[Birma]

... people who buy it will need to have some lenses for it for general photography, like the KM17-35 f2.8-4 and the KM28-75 f2.8 ie. good mid-upper quality lenses that don't cost the earth, and are ideal for general photography, Sony don't have any such lenses in their range.

I think you make a good point Greg, about the middle level lens. If I was to get a A850 and want something in the wide range then I can't see a CZ 16-35 being in my price range. There is the sigma 12-24, but nothing in the Sony range I think. I suppose the worst case scenario is that Sony don't see a market in this area, and so it doesn't get addressed. What happens in the other ranges? Is there a "middle" ground in anyone's range, or does Tamron/Sigma/etc. "own" this market and so the "big" players don't bother - they just need cheap kits to get people in, and the big/expensive stuff with the bigger mark ups?

Please may I add Tilt&Shift to the rant list

[Greg Beetham]

You're right Birma, there is the Tamron and Sigma offerings, but that doesn't absolve Sony from the responsibility of having a complete stable, just like Nikon and Canon have, besides I think the KM versions of those essential GP lenses were perhaps built to KM's specs rather than the 'built to a price' of the Tamron versions.

Yes add away,
that's the one that was scratching at my memory while I was composing my post, but I refused too let it distract me from trying to remember it.
Hmm I think on reflection tho I'll just take a straight shift, I don't think I'm ready for a tilt n shift...but by all means be my guest Sony should offer both versions.
Greg

[Dulaney Ward]

I agree with you guys. Sony certainly needs to expand its stable of lenses--in several directions--better ones for newbies, the middle-price-range lenses you are talking about, AND some killer new lenses to attract the pros. I suspect that's what Sony has in mind, in part, by offering the 850 at the expected price point. I think an awful lot of 850s will be sold, creating a much bigger market for those top-of-the-line and middle-of-the-line lenses, With Zeiss on board for another five years, and a killer G (the 70-400) out at the beginning of this year, I think we'll see some really nice lenses in the next year or so.

[By the way, I was lusting after a Minolta tilt-shift a quarter-century ago, and longer.]

Dulaney

[alphaomega]

I think there is general agreement that Sony do need to expand the range of lenses available both for APS-C and FF. I seem to recall that the Sony chap who spoke at the A900 launch in Edinburgh said that the 24Mp A900 sensor was sized to get the best out of the CZ lenses such as the 24-70 available at that time. So presumably Sony thinks there is little point in putting anything less than a CZ or G lens on the A900 and presumably also the forthcoming A850 if you want the best quality. Anyone wanting lesser performance at a lower price can go for Tamron or Sigma. As DK has shown you can get good results with lesser lenses such as the 28-105 and others, but it would appear to me that Sony has priced the A900 to make money on the CZ and G lenses. A bit like me buying an Epson Photo R285 at £50 when the inks alone were £45 and parked right beside the printer. Probably Sony are releasing as many lenses as Can/Nik but doing so from a much smaller base. There must be a design and production limit they cannot exceed so patience is probably a virtue and Sony are probably not too disappointed that Sigma have ramped up their release of Alpha compatible lenses after having shunned KM completely. As I understand it Tokina are also now considering joining the fray. My main worry is the current tendency to release lower specified versions of older models. I do now fear that the A500/550 will be 12Mp Exmors with cannibalised A700 functionality. I am hoping to purchase a new A700 at £500 shortly. Best price I have seen is £540. I am really disappointed that Sony have not announced a straight A700 replacement with a larger sensor and improved higher ISO noise performance.