Saony vs, the Whiners

[Alpha1000]

I have nothing against Barry and his methods. It is his life and his mission. If he is paid for it or if he does this service for another brand gratis is his things. Everyone has some job, goals in life, but I would like you to consider this:

From the time Sony introduced A100, there was Barry on certain big forum with his Clint Eastwood picture in every post, calling himself the Noise Police. He promoted ... and Leica at that time. Then when no new cameras were introduced, there were his posts with pictures of Clint Eastwood and with words saying something like "He'll be back". Every camera that Sony announced that iwas constantly attacked by Barry. Without him ever touching the camera, without taking a single picture. He would go through various sites trying to find anything negative and then would repeat it constantly.

Sony may not care about Barry, but then he makes a poll here about the A550 in a way that it comes out, due to his negative PR, bad. There is a consistency and a mission that is omnipresent in his crusade. Sony may not care about Barry, but they will for sure not do any favors to David, if someone pollutes this forum with clear sneaky anti-Sony agenda. With Barry it has lasted on various forums for years now. Similar things happened on video forums, where another Barry pined the Barry nick. I wander who is, or who are, hiding behind all of them.

I would like to see a positive forum. Things are improving. New models are coming out with unique features. The 200-300 line was just extended with the 500-series models. No, they do not replace the #700 line.

[David Kilpatrick]

I am sorry, but Alpha1000 has been deleted as a user and banned. So has 'NoFanBoysAllowed' (Don) as I don't want this entire forum disrupted by people looking for a place to have arguments. Barry has not been deleted, his posts and language - or dealings with others - have been acceptable.

David

[pakodominguez]

Barry has not been deleted, his posts and language - or dealings with others - have been acceptable.

David

I think Sony doesn't agree with you...

[Javelin]

We can't delete Barry... that would be wrong. Barry is what Don should have been realy . it would have been much more interesting. I don;t get why even this A1000 character goes so far.

[pakodominguez]

We can't delete Barry... that would be wrong. Barry is what Don should have been realy . it would have been much more interesting. I don;t get why even this A1000 character goes so far.

Actaully, Don deleted himself...

Even if Barry and Don (and other people too, of curse) fight the same battle, wich is giving Sony strong feedback in order to get better cameras, I prefered Don since he is a real working photographer. With real needs -like his deffense of the high level APS bodies. Barry is waiting for the best camera made ever for 500 bucks (dollars, no sterlins) because what Barry needs is an A700 or its sucessor, but he doesn't want to pay for it.

Regards

[bfitzgerald]

That's a bit unfair really, I do earn some of my income from photography, but I won't parade myself around as a full time big shot pro, because I honestly am not! It's just being realistic about things, and nothing more. I also do some other non capture stuff, like scanning services and restoration/slideshows et, which has picked up fairly well recently, whilst it's not taking photos, it's still photography to a point. With the market in its current situation, it's ultra competitive..and you have to explore other areas too. I never liked the tag "pro", but I am a photographer, even if I did not earn anything from it, as many do not..opinions are still very vaild.

As for Don, well he did come up with some good ideas and comments, but frequently they turned into personal remarks, that really went far beyond what anyone would expect on a forum, I don't see how anyone can really prefer that kind of poster.

Also we are very different photographers, with different interests and subjects, Don does a lot of low light sports, I don't. I have real needs too, I just won't blow people's heads off or crush them with insults to get my point across

No I am not expecting miracles in this price range, but I do expect Sony to be able to deliver something a bit more fleshed out. And I have no problems saying I just don't have the budget to buy into higher end bodies, this is about my level, but I should still be able to secure something pretty good. Mentioned too many times the D90 and models like it, that's realistic and reasonable for expectations in this price bracket. I never once suggested a pro line model for next to nothing.
If you compare Sony's offerings in the lower end, I don't feel they stack up that strongly v other makers. I see nothing wrong in pointing that out, many others have as well, we simply hope they pick up on it.

You simply cannot sit here and say you have to pay A700+ prices before you get something good, and the reason is above..other makers offer more capable models, and no doubt they will sell better as well. Complacency isn't a good thing, even if I had unlimited wallet bulge, I would still feel the same way, these lower end models account for the bulk of sales, it's very important companies get it right, and offer competitive models.

I believe Sony has this time around, got it wrong..

[Greg Beetham]

I am sorry, but Alpha1000 has been deleted as a user and banned. So has 'NoFanBoysAllowed' (Don) as I don't want this entire forum disrupted by people looking for a place to have arguments. Barry has not been deleted, his posts and language - or dealings with others - have been acceptable.

David

Hmm some stuff must have transpired while I was pre-occupied elsewhere, I never even got to see any 'NoFanBoysAllowed' posts. Oh well, it was probably more of the same ole, same ole....from both parties....
Greg

ps. I have never really understood the Sony evangelist types, the ones who preach Sony as if it's some kind of religion, defenders of the realm etc. and never seeing any kind of fault in Sony.
As far as I'm concerned they showed their true colours when they screwed up the Macro Flash system right back at the beginning. By removing half of it's functionality and then replacing the missing half with a super-expensive low powered LIGHT that doesn't work remotely as well as the original flash, but still calling the LIGHT a flash anyway....I've often thought someone should report that to (our ACCC) http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/142 as false and misleading advertising, (mainly because they ignored any enquiry about the subject).

[pakodominguez]

Hi Barry,

First at all, nothing personal. My issue with you is that, from the Minolta/Sony community, you are somebody I do respect, but lately it is really boring reading your mono thematic posts. That reminds me a good friend's technique for getting divorce: tell all your friends that you are doing bad in your marriage, so next time you talk to your friends they will ask you if you already divorce: social pressure will help you taking action.

That's a bit unfair really, I do earn some of my income from photography, but I won't parade myself around as a full time big shot pro, because I honestly am not! It's just being realistic about things, and nothing more. I also do some other non capture stuff, like scanning services and restoration/slideshows et, which has picked up fairly well recently, whilst it's not taking photos, it's still photography to a point. With the market in its current situation, it's ultra competitive..and you have to explore other areas too. I never liked the tag "pro", but I am a photographer, even if I did not earn anything from it, as many do not..opinions are still very vaild.

What's wrong about been a pro? Or about complete your salary doing any kind of photography? That discucion is between you and you. I don't care at all when some "artist" try to snob me because I do events and I do like doing weddings. I know who I am.

You simply cannot sit here and say you have to pay A700+ prices before you get something good, and the reason is above..other makers offer more capable models, and no doubt they will sell better as well. Complacency isn't a good thing, even if I had unlimited wallet bulge, I would still feel the same way, these lower end models account for the bulk of sales, it's very important companies get it right, and offer competitive models.

I believe Sony has this time around, got it wrong..

The D90 was a 1100 US$ camera when it came out, a year latter than the A700. I think that, beside the video, the A700 is a better camera than the D90. I don't look at lower models because they are small but not small enough (I'm waiting for a E-P1-like model) But I think that the A350/A380 or the A500/A550 are good cameras, specially the A550 -even if they are not good for me: I need a big viewfinder in order to stand the 10 to 12 hours work a wedding represent.

My first Minolta body was a Maxxum 5 and I don't understand why some people use it as a benchmark -it wasn't. The Maxxum 7 was, as well as the Nikon F100, the best film cameras ever IMHO.

I think we have to face a different approach from Sony than we are used to until the A700/A850/A900 cameras: we will have less Minolta and more Sony on the cameras. And that's why Sony modified the interface to a cybershot-like approach -I'm surprised that they did it on the A5xx too, and that tell us that Sony doesn't consider the A5xx as an amateur-pro second camera but just a hobbyist camera. So probably yes, Barry, you will have to target A7xx models (and prices...) in order to get a satisfactory camera.

Regards

[David Kilpatrick]

What you have to bear in mind is that the launch shop price for the A550 is exactly the same as the A380, give or take a feew pounds and a kit lens in the UK (they are within 10% of each other and within 3 months of each other in launch date). Compared to the A380, the A550 is exceptional value - there is no other sub-£500 DSLR body available here which can shoot at 7fps, do in-camera HDR, offer two live view options, boast a much better viewfinder and rear screen, and produce acceptable ISO 6400 (with just usable 12,800) JPEGs.

However, the Alpha 380 is and remains over-priced for what it offers. I paid £600 for a kit with 18-55mm and it's now on sale for £450 in my local dealer labelled as a barely used ex-demo camera (which is, in effect, what it is - it's done a couple of days 'field use' only). My Alpha 350 is, I think, a better camera all-round and I was able to buy one new for exactly £300 in February. The Alpha 380 should really be £399, the A330 £349, the A230 £299.

David

[Birma]

I wonder if companies sometimes set the price of a product not just on the basis of how cheap they can we sell it, but to match competitors products? I know that when I am buying a product that I don't know much about in a shop, I will assume that the different ones available at around the same price are comparable. So, if people were shopping for a £500ish camera and saw the D5000 they would have also seen the A380 and perhaps considered both. Now the A550 is out Sony can match that against the D5000 on the shelves and let the A380 drop down in price (put it against the D3000). I know many people will not get the cheapest alternative given a range of options, and that the Sony badge still commands a premium in consumer electronics (rightly or wrongly).

[bfitzgerald]

This is part of the problem, Sony have too many models, and not enough differences.

These new A5xx ones would make better models than the A330 and A380, leaving the door open for the "real deal" next level camera.

5 entry models is about 3 too many. I cannot see the A380 selling well at all.