Altering other people work without permission...

[Lonnie Utah]

It just isn't kosher. Aster changed a couple of my photos for photo challenge #23. The more I think about it, the more bent I have become. I mean, my work is my work. Like it or hate it, it's mine. It is not yours. What gives another the right to change it without my permission? Nothing. What irks me most of all is my watermarks were removed/covered in the phtos. As I said in that thread, I put them there for a reason. It's just bad form and I should have been asked if it was ok.

I think that the modifications done were cheesy and in bad taste. I'd like to ask the mods to remove those files and from Aster, I'd like an appology (via PM).....

[Winston]

It just isn't kosher. Aster changed a couple of my photos for photo challenge #23. The more I think about it, the more bent I have become. I mean, my work is my work. Like it or hate it, it's mine. It is not yours. What gives another the right to change it without my permission? Nothing. What irks me most of all is my watermarks were removed/covered in the phtos. As I said in that thread, I put them there for a reason. It's just bad form and I should have been asked if it was ok.

I think that the modifications done were cheesy and in bad taste. I'd like to ask the mods to remove those files and from Aster, I'd like an appology (via PM).....

Agreed...yuk.

[David Kilpatrick]

I'd simply ask - lighten up, gents. Whatever Aster did, she did without any intention to offend and in good faith. It was a lighthearted approach. If it's in bad taste, then it's less so than about 50 per cent of the Christmas cards I've NOT bought, or the weekly bombardment of animal clips with facetious voiceovers on TV - or the way that many magazines will happy treat any photograph with graphic overlays, captions and stuff.

This is only a forum, perhaps Aster should have given some warning of this flight of fancy but you can't come down so heavily. When you are dealing with someone who has no problem wearing her heart on her sleeve, and is not embarrassed to be creative, let's not be Grumpy Old Men!

David

[Lonnie Utah]

Dave,

I understand the intention wasn't done in malice, but that isn't the point. The point is that creative liberty was taken with another's work without consulting that person. While this is only a hobby for me, I do take my work seriously. If this liberty can be taken, where will it end? That's my point. Maybe my approach was wrong, but I know that morally I am in the right.

I was truly angry that my name was removed from the photos, that is what set me off. In fact, I am upset enough that I am reconsidering posting anything else here. Just not worth it to me.

[Greg Beetham]

Lonnie, I'd guess the name removal would have been accidental....
Greg

ps. I think Yildiz has a tough job to do there in that Photo Challenge Forum, it would not be easy trying to keep everyone happy....it would be easy to slip up under the pressure.

[Birma]

I'd simply ask - lighten up, gents.

Here, here. There would be no challenges, with the selfless work of judging and reporting back, without Yildiz's efforts. There was no intention to mislead anyone as to the creator of the work, and in fact it was being praised. I would not post a comment here at all for fear of inflaming things, but I wanted to ensure a balance of views.

[bossel]

Here, here.

Where? I'd say we all have different expectations when posting our pictures. In past times, here, you'd post a pic and next day you'd see it with flashy neon colours or run through 3 different PS filters, certainly not something I'd want. But many are happy with this.

I haven't seen the pics in question (deleted?), removing the name was maybe a bad idea, but we've all learned from the affair, learnt our lesson for the future, that people are different and can now go back to work, taking pictures, shovelling snow, taking a sunbath etc...

[Lonnie Utah]

Lonnie, I'd guess the name removal would have been accidental.....

On two seperate photos?

[harvey]

Obviously using and altering the work of others without permission is not acceptable.

However this is a summary thread of a competition and the intention is to highlight and
frame any winning entries. I assume that the originals were and are available on the forum
for reference.

I wouldn't be bothered myself but maybe a compromise is to allow people to be creative
with a frame around a winning image or just say when entering a challenge that any quoting
of the entry should be unmodified or a direct link to the original.

I don't think that identification/copyright marks should be removed.

On a related note I was watching one of the (awful) early morning "news" programmes on the
TV recently and they had two landscape photographers in the studio talking about their
prizewinning work. In almost all cases you only saw a 16:9 crop (with some zooming) or
the images. This was really annoying.

Harvey

[Lonnie Utah]

I wouldn't be bothered myself

Until your work was modified in a fashion you did not approve of. Taste in art is subjective. What is ok for one, is not ok for someone else. Who is to say where that line is for anyone. I know I seem like I'm being a hard@$$ here, but the point is this. If I fold on this modification, what legs do I have to stand on when someone modifies my work to the vulgar or obscene or when someone pirates my works for their financial gain? None. Sure what aster did might have been "harmless", but I have to stand firm against the precident it sets, and I cannot allow it. So, no, I am not going to "lighten up" or "chill out" when it comes to this. If you can great, but when someone changes your stuff in a way that you do not approve of, I don't want to hear you crying about it....

You really said all you needed to say in your first sentance....

Obviously using and altering the work of others without permission is not acceptable.

[Javelin]

None of what you say here gives you the right to pillory someone like aster on a public forum the way you did. all it would have taken is a small PM and some humility. this just makes you look like a child.

[Lonnie Utah]

None of what you say here gives you the right to pillory someone like aster on a public forum the way you did. all it would have taken is a small PM and some humility. this just makes you look like a child.

Listen, a PM to aster only lets aster know what is wrong. Do you think anyone else will ever do it again on this forum? No. If aster's feelings were hurt, I'm sorry. (Aster sent me and apology and I accepted) Seems like the initial response where was folks telling me to "lighten up". Well, that works both ways. After the work was removed, I removed my post in that thread. The other reason I didn't do it in a PM was, I wanted the issue resolved QUICKLY, and since this is a worldwide forum, and I don't know where everyone lives, I posted there and here to get the work down ASAP. The only way to assure that was posting in that thread and here.

Modifications were made to MY work, without my permission, knowledge, or approval. I such a case I reserve the right to call folks on the carpet for it. I was humiliated when I saw what was done to MY images. Why should the person that modified MY images escape that same humiliation? Sometimes education is tough. This is one of those times. As I told you in your PM where you tried to scold me like I am a little child, No apologies for standing firm. I am not in the wrong here. I am not going to be backed down because you want a little Political correctness.

Is there one person here that disagrees that modification of someone else's work without there permission is wrong?

[bossel]

Is there one person here that disagrees that modification of someone else's work without there permission is wrong?

I think the law is clear, if you want to take it to this level. Internt is not a lawfree space. Better call your lawyer and file suit and announce it on TV.

But if this makes you feel humiliated you have a problem.

If you feel you need to stand up and firm against evil in this world and 'educate' the rest, well, good luck. You're blowing this way out of proportion. It's like someone bumps into you at the supermarket and says sorry, but you instead are outraged, humilated and cry for revenge. Accept the apologies and move on with your shopping.

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[Lonnie Utah]

But if this makes you feel humiliated you have a problem.

Maybe humiliation was a poor choice of words, but regardless I didn't approve.

You're blowing this way out of proportion.

This seems to be the common response. As I said before, let it happen to you and let's see what you do. Maybe you don't care about what you post. Maybe you aren't proud of what you do. I am. I put a lot of thought, time, effort into what I do, so sue me for being proud of that.

Lets put it like this. I am trying to get somewhere doing this stuff. People can find this place via my e-mail, log in name, etc. I don't want images linked to me that I am not proud of. What if a potential client google's me and finds that sort of stuff? What does that say about me, my integrity and what might happen to photos they hire me to shoot? See why I'm so serious, and why I don't think I'm "blowing this out of proportion..."

Additionally, a part here that isn't getting alot of play is that the color space of the images appeared to me to be changed (it almost looked like a 256 color colorspace). The colors were not the same as what I posted. This bothered me. The removal of MY NAME from the photos bothered me (of course at this point they weren't my work any longer). I'm sorry if you folks think I'm being a bit harsh, but I AM SERIOUS about this stuff. Had I know that my images would have been modified I never would have posted them in that thread.

[Dr. Harout]

My stand on this:
First thing to do would've been to send a PM to Yildiz and kindly ask to fix the issue (and I'm sure Yildiz would've fixed that in no time), if not then you could've asked it on the forum (humiliatingly or not is up to your taste and education).
I was sure Yildiz would have sent you a PM as an apology, and that my friend puts me on the solidarity side with Yildiz. I have utmost respect to her and to her contribution to this forum.