Altering other people work without permission...

[Lonnie Utah]

Everyone here is making the ASSUMPTION that Yildiz was in someway offended by what I did. She had not said anything to me, or anything publicly. Until I (or anyone else) get(s) a PM or she posts something here, I have no way of knowing if that is true or not.

[aster]

Lonnie,

This is the first as well as the last time I address this issue and I will in no way speak on this matter ever again, not for you, not for anyone.

I thank all my forum members/friends who have known me quite a long time to at least predict my motives when I address any post here. Time is the best teacher anyone can have to get to know a person, to trust them with your life, to know they are not ill-intentioned even if they never witnessed the event itself while happening. Trust builds up through time alone.

You asked for an apology through a PM right after you saw your photos altered. And I responded the moment I saw the inquiry. You wrote back that you accepted the apology. That's fine and it should of ended there and we should all have moved on by now because there's a lot going on with each of our lives which deserve the true attention.

But you never apologized for the remarks you hastely made for Maxxuus' Gremlin photo when it got the third place. As a photographer we believe that you are fully entitled to your opinions in assessments of art and its forms. But you can also be very offensive. I paid close attention to Maxxuus' photo and I still believe it deserves the place it earned among the rest that were submitted. Being respectful is what you request but you deny it to other's works. I never heard / read anyone, including myself, responding to your photo submissions in the manner that you did.
This is not the best type of competitive spirit that builds a healthy environment around any competition.

Do I have feelings and a human soul? Yes.
Otherwise I would not be spending a precious penomenon called time trrying to see the beauty in each work and person who either accidentaly or consciously happen to be here.

Do I get get offended? Yes, I can feel offense right down to my soul. But I don't have the extra time to ponder on it and make life a misery for myself and others. I'd rather build something positive instead. Life is to vulnerable and short to waste on it with a desease of malfunctioning thinking.

My position in this forum also sets the priorities for me. I listen to enquiries, I assess them, realize it if possible, abandon it if essential, keep quiet when things may go overboard in attacks to my person...etc. I make choices and try to make them for the good ones that'll build something good in return.

Your views were always welcomed by everyone here. Nobody turned their backs on you or tried to humiliate you or belittle your work in the eyes of the Universe. But even if that happenned one day, I hope you stand tall with serenity and grace and move on. It has its rewards and I hope time rewards you that...

Try raising yourself out of this matter Lonnie, and move on to your next choice of 'thing-to-do' and don't fear sharing it with the World...and let them do what they want with what you throw at them...it just might come back to you with a basket full of unimaginable goods. Just give them that chance.

Regards,
Yildiz

[Lonnie Utah]

But you never apologized for the remarks you hastely made for Maxxuus' Gremlin photo when it got the third place. As a photographer we believe that you are fully entitled to your opinions in assessments of art and its forms. But you can also be very offensive. I paid close attention to Maxxuus' photo and I still believe it deserves the place it earned among the rest that were submitted. Being respectful is what you request but you deny it to other's works. I never heard / read anyone, including myself, responding to your photo submissions in the manner that you did.
This is not the best type of competitive spirit that builds a healthy environment around any competition.

Was anything I said about that photo incorrect? I said it was soft, noisy and OOF. It is. Prove to me other wise. It might have other qualities that make it likeable, but what I said about that photo is 100% true. (edit3: It's says in the "directions" for that forum "Discussion welcome." In my mind, that's all I was doing, trying to get some discussion going about why that was a superior photo when from a simple technical aspect, it is not.) (edit2: That's why I limited my comments to technical aspects of the photos, not subjective aspects of the photo...)

What is the point of the photo challenges? TO CHALLENGE OURSELVES. Part of challenge is critique. Part of art is critique. If we, as artists, cannot take criticism in a field where taste is subject, then we are in the wrong field. Do you not think that I have listened the criticism I have gotten in this thread? I have. The question is, have others?

There is a big difference in critiquing someone's work and altering someone's work. Now altering someone's work inherently changes it. It is no longer the artist's work, it is something else. The bottom line is you altered my work without my permission, and that is not right, end of discussion. Criticism simply points out positives and negatives in a piece of art. It is as subjective as the art itself. What one person does not like, might be the very reason someone else likes it. If you, as a judge cannot take the criticism of those who are subjected to your judging, then you are unfit to be a judge. Sorry, but that is my opinion. Back in September when I PM'ed you, I told you that the judge should pick the finalists in the challenges and that collective should vote on them. I was poo-pooed. The current process in the challenge thread is not transparent. As a result, this is what you get. Those were your choices, now you hve to deal with them.

I don't enter these contests to be in competition with others. I enter them to challenge MYSELF. That's why I also said that I didn't like that fact that folks can enter any old picture they have laying around. How does that challenge oneself? For the most part, I have tried to enter only pics that have been taken in the time span of the contest. I guess what I am saying is that the challenges don't really challenge anyone in their current format. On 2 or 3 others sites where I've seen this done, the topics are set to truly challenge the photographer to try some sort of technique, angles, application of light etc. I have seen very little of that here. Personally, I like challenges that only have 1 word topics, some I've seen that have been good "depth", "shadows", "circles", "motion", etc.

I guess this place just isn't the place for me. Other sites I visit have more traffic, better photographers, and truly do challenge and inspire me. I will most likely continue to lurk, but why should I continue to contribute to a place that doesn't give that much back to me.

Edit: I also think that we better ourselves through healthy debate, not burying our heads in the sand ....

[Dusty]

I guess this place just isn't the place for me. Other sites I visit have more traffic, better photographers, and truly do challenge and inspire me. I will most likely continue to lurk, but why should I continue to contribute to a place that doesn't give that much back to me.

Wow Lonnie, you really are self-centered. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Dusty

[Lonnie Utah]

I guess this place just isn't the place for me. Other sites I visit have more traffic, better photographers, and truly do challenge and inspire me. I will most likely continue to lurk, but why should I continue to contribute to a place that doesn't give that much back to me.

Wow Lonnie, you really are self-centered. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

No. I'm honest. This place is good for Sony specific technical info. I will continue to visit for those reasons. As for the rest of it, I call it like I see it.

[David Kilpatrick]

I should remind everyone that if you trawl back into the past of this forum, Sonolta (Don Northup) had no hesitation in taking people's images and subjecting them to massive alterations, creating derivatives with art filters and processing. Yes, it was criticised; the topic was discussed; some did not like having images adjusted by a third party, others actually enjoyed the process.

There has been a precedent (much of it wiped from the forum when Don asked to have it removed on departing) and against this background, Lonnie's reaction is a bit strong. On the other hand, there are forums where to do this would have been totally unacceptable. I do not think any colour space or quality alteration was deliberately caused in the present case.

Lonnie is clearly a very accomplished photographer with an excellent eye for images and I don't want to lose all future pictures from Lonnie as a result of a prolonged argument. So I suggest we call it a day, or I'll lock the thread. Season of goodwill, and all that...

David

[Mike]

Here, here. There would be no challenges, with the selfless work of judging and reporting back, without Yildiz's efforts. There was no intention to mislead anyone as to the creator of the work, and in fact it was being praised. I would not post a comment here at all for fear of inflaming things, but I wanted to ensure a balance of views.

Well said! Personally I was unable to compose a reply that did not include the phrase "butt head."

Mike

[bakubo]

I have read through this whole thread -- yeah, some of you can't imagine why I would do that while in Egypt -- and I guess all I can contribute is to suggest that Lonnie and Yildiz try to get past this incident, forgive and forget. To be honest, I see Lonnie's point quite well and agree with him, but at the same time I also know that Yildiz meant no harm nor offense. She works hard and contributes a lot to this forum and we all appreciate it. Lonnie also contributes a lot to this forum so I hope he doesn't leave.