PMA round up

[Javelin]

My posts weren't rude and they couldn't respond to them without cementing a new policy good or bad. it would be either ignore it which they can't do. as long as those posts were there it was an acknolegement they knew about the subject of the post (like Henry's wheel) I was telling them it was a chronic problem and they should be extending warranty coverage for that issue.

On the macro flash... it's a mystery, there is some hocus pocus going on there. The decision to remove the ring connector doesn't make sense. they would have had to retool to make the controller the way it is now and then why not just make it completely unique. I'm still thinking along the lines that the Minolta flash system was broke or reached a technical dead end and had to be redone from scratch and there was some complication with the ring unit. It's the only way to explain the new protocol and killing off the 56 then the 36 in favour of the 42 and 58. The 58 is a nice bit of tech but it's not going to gain them customers all alone I think it's part of a bigger lighting system thats either stalled or not ready. It could be because of the technological right turn they are seemingly about to take with the new cameras. What effect is there going to be on the flash system when the new cameras have electronic shutters. What about the Pelicle mirror idea? what effect would that have on flash? Can you meter off the pellicle?

Anyway any answer they give on that would tip their hand or make them look dumb.

[bfitzgerald]

Ditto on the Sony blog too, never a response, the only time there was Sony would say

"We're reaching out" aka some customer service issue or something. Not that you expected many replies, but it kinda defeats the point of having a place where people ask questions and throw up ideas. I remember when the A700 was launched, and they were meant to have a Q&A session with someone from the Alpha team, that never happened either!
You'll be waiting for the ring flash system to get upgraded..and a while too if ever.

Bottom line is you look what's going on, on the ground as such. Are there improvements being made to newer models? Are firmware updates addressing areas or issues? I'd have to say on that basis alone, Sony are on the path they want to take, come hell or high water...users nor anyone else will move them from that.

[Greg Beetham]

Being 'nice' and 'respectful' to Sony, (tried that for a couple of years), just does not work, plain and simple. Being NOT 'nice' and 'respectful' doesn't work either, but it sure is a lot more satisfying.
I might be a bit 'slow' or it might just be that I'm willing to give someone, (or an organization), the benifit of the doubt...for a while, but after being ignored for a couple of years one gets the impression one is being treated with contempt.
They didn't have to respond directly, (might have been a bad move anyway, if they wanted to keep anything secret, that is, I wouldn't be able to bottle up any re-development news about the Macro flash system), they could have released a general news bulletin with that news included in with all the other 'news'...but Sony did just like it does with 'almost' everyone, the ignore tactic, sooner or later he/she will just give up and all will be well.
When it comes down to the 'why' of the re-design of the Macro flash system, it's fairly obvious too me why they did it, they already had a LED Ring Light in the inventory that they wanted to get some sales for, so the obvious move was to get rid of the expensive Minolta ringflash, (compatible with the KM7D, KM5D and A100, A700, this is verified by users, it's part of the twin flash system anyway...or WAS), and flog their expensive Ringlight in it's place....also why not call it a flash as well (as they did), even though it can't 'flash', maybe most users won't even notice the distinction, those that do...well, we'll just ignore those, and after a while they'll give up.
And that, my friends, is tonights sermon on the Sony Ringflash debacle.
Greg

[Winedarksea]

Backstage or BS101 as I like to call it. they won't answer direct questiions and most of the time not even a we can't answer that. Try posting anything about macro ring flash it'll be ignored or deleted. I've had 4 posts there deleted without explanation. and a few competly ignored. One that was deleted was about Henrys wheel problem. Another was about alowing 3rd party access to LANC which I'd really like to see on the high end cameras and is something nobody else has done. the other 2 were pressing about the macro flash and why they diasbled it.

I had the same kinds of experiences when I first went on Backstage 101, Javelin. It is still not what I want it to be, but I have seen increasing participation by a wider variety of Sony people, some even responding to probes from Walt Knapp and others about macro flash and what Walt calls "crippled A mode." So far there has been no discussion about the possibility of changing Sony's stance about these matters, but Sony reps have been there engaging Walt and others in conversation about it. Unfortunatrly, walt takes offense at their disagreement with him on various matters, and attacks them sarcastically. That is not going to get us anywhere.

I strongly recommend that 1) if we have an issue such as macro flash, we state our case in the appropriate forum associated with Backstage 101 (which is in the process of change, but can be reached through Sony Alpha Backstage 101); and (2) we build a system of local groups each of which gets together from time to time at a central location. Indications are that we could get Sony people to come to some of these get-togethers. There is nothing like head-to-head communication.

[bfitzgerald]

Walt is pretty straight up, well that's my impression of his posts. I've ran across a few of them on BS101 (you can decide for yourselves what true stands for )
I don't blame him for a sarcastic stance, as nothing changes anyway..if he were all over them being nice, won't work..might as well thump the table and make some noise as they say.
Sony just don't have the capability or desire to take this stuff on-board, I remember when the A900 came out..everyone expected a FW update to fix the "hmm jpegs", never happened. Sony have said about the "crippled A" mode or lack of lens release lock, as in looking into it. If anything happens, well that's another story. Probably not..

[bfitzgerald]

I've ordered a German Shepherd, a Luger, and a cyanide capsule..but I've not worked out a way to upload the video to youtube, whilst biting down on the capsule and pulling the trigger at the same time..damn, now I have to suffer thinking about how to end the suffering!

[Winedarksea]

Walt is pretty straight up, well that's my impression of his posts. I've ran across a few of them on BS101 (you can decide for yourselves what true stands for )
I don't blame him for a sarcastic stance, as nothing changes anyway..if he were all over them being nice, won't work..might as well thump the table and make some noise as they say.
Sony just don't have the capability or desire to take this stuff on-board, I remember when the A900 came out..everyone expected a FW update to fix the "hmm jpegs", never happened. Sony have said about the "crippled A" mode or lack of lens release lock, as in looking into it. If anything happens, well that's another story. Probably not..

Barry, Walt is absolutely straight-up, and both persistent and fearless in his fight to get Sony to change its ways with regard to certain things--and I have supported him in these struggles. He also generously gives of his time, his intelligence, and his very considerable experience to help Sony shooters at all levels. I greatly admire him, and like his spunk and grit very much. But I have noticed that he often thinks others are picking on him, and belittling him, often when they most certanly are not, and responds by belittling his tormenters. At that point, they will very definitely respond in kind. Goodbye to communication.

I am not asking anyone to be "all over them [Sony} being nice." There is every reason to be tough and straighforward in what you say--but sarcasm and belittling other individuals have no place in a dialogue you want to continue.

[InTheSky]

... so the obvious move was to get rid of the expensive Minolta ringflash, (compatible with the KM7D, KM5D and A100, A700, this is verified by users, it's part of the twin flash system anyway...or WAS), and flog their expensive Ringlight in it's place....also why not call it a flash as well (as they did), even though it can't 'flash', maybe most users won't even notice the distinction, those that do...well, we'll just ignore those, and after a while they'll give up.
And that, my friends, is tonights sermon on the Sony Ringflash debacle.
Greg

I will let you know next week if the Minolta MFC-1000 and Ring flash is working well on the A900 (That I think it should be). I have wait too long on ebay to find one and finally got one at a very none reasonable price yesterday . But this is the price to pay when you want something ... My Macro crazy test minding has cost me more than a a A900 so far ...

For the firmware update to the A900 ... I'm thinking that will only happen when they will reveal the A700 replacement ... I don't know why ... but a feeling like that .

Regards,

FRank

[Javelin]

I had the same kinds of experiences when I first went on Backstage 101, Javelin. It is still not what I want it to be, but I have seen increasing participation by a wider variety of Sony people, some even responding to probes from Walt Knapp and others about macro flash and what Walt calls "crippled A mode." So far there has been no discussion about the possibility of changing Sony's stance about these matters,

Sony hasn't stated a stance. there is no discussion. there is Us Asking and Sony being silent and when the Sony experts are on we get polite silence. Walt is frustrated because Sony's not diffusing the situation properly. the macro flash is a piece of equipment that WAS working. it Was what Sony always strives the be. Sony continued it but disabled it for seemingly no reason and to Guys like Walt it seams they did it vindictively. Sony all gravy and no meat on that forum. They are probably dutifully reporting on the activity there to their superiors but Sony is not keeping their end up with the people tat are donating their time there..

I strongly recommend that 1) if we have an issue such as macro flash, we state our case in the appropriate forum associated with Backstage 101 (which is in the process of change, but can be reached through Sony Alpha Backstage 101); and (2) we build a system of local groups each of which gets together from time to time at a central location. Indications are that we could get Sony people to come to some of these get-togethers. There is nothing like head-to-head communication.

Don't you think theres enough there already? there is already 20 threads over there on this subject. alone aside from the posts that disappeared. No.. Sony is well aware of this "Issue" and they have already chose not to respond. It's their company, they can do what they want and I can buy a Sigma ring flash that will work fine. For Walt this is a huge issue, he does this professionally. for me it's just a hobby and I'll get by. I'm more interested in "why" they did what they did as a curiosity. They have the best 100mm macro there is. they have a 50mm and a new 30mm macro and they in Walt's words Vandalized the best ring flash for SLRs there was for no apparent reason. in the absence of information people make their own up. just look at DPR. I always like to know why things happen especially when they don't make sense on the surface.

[Greg Beetham]

Basically, Walt is doing whatever he is doing, for us, we Sony Macro shooters, (and the future of Macro photography within the sphere of Sony's influence), I know from the time when I used to exchange posts with him, he already has a complete KM twin flash/ring flash and controller set, plus a reserve new backup set unused. He doesn't actually need to get involved with some Sony logjam.....
I stopped bothering with that Sony showpony Blog setup after a few posts, ages ago, I guess I gave up, (I probably shouldn't have), whatever, at least I couldn't see any benifit from staying around there, at the time.
The USA sales chief did (very occasionally), have a few words, usually general in nature and therefore of not much use...I certainly never saw anything to raise any hope, or that Sony would ever even acknowledge there was an 'issue' with the Macro flash system.
Regarding Walt's 'crippled A mode' stance, I never saw his original post on the issue to be able to make any assessment about what exactly it is he's saying...as far as I can see 'A mode' works much pretty much the same as you would expect it to work, despite the fact that ever since the f-stop ring was removed from the lens (where it should still be), and f-stop control put on the body it made life a lot harder for third party lens manufacturers to achieve full compatibility with a given brand/system. (that was no accident I think).
I think what Walt is talking about is 'A mode flash control' more than anything, I'm sure the manufacturers could bring back 'A mode' OTF/TTL flash control if they really wanted too and get rid of those silly pre-flashes, but again that makes it too easy for third party flash manufacturers to achieve compatibility, so that probably won't happen anytime soon. (some will say the sensor has the wrong reflectivity for OTF to work...well just adjust the OTF sensor accordingly then, or have it look at some special area inside the mirror box with the right reflectivity)
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

I think what Walt is talking about aka crippled A mode, it's specific to the lack of lens release option, so you cannot fire the shutter unless you put the camera in M mode. Every recent Alpha forces you to M mode, or the shutter will not fire. Out of my 7 bodies, only 1 makes you do this..that's the A200.

People do attach MF lenses (and there are a number of MF new lenses about), lens babies etc, not just about telescopes and microscopes. So for example if I buy a MF lens, say one of those samyang jobs..if I put it on my film 7 and set it to A mode..the camera gives me a metered reading, you can adjust the aperture as you do on these lenses via the collar. In fact mount no lens, and you get a metered reading, obviously nothing appears as far as aperture goes, and MF is displayed (obviously!) With the crippled A mode, you have to go to M, which means you will have to adjust every exposure as you do for manual mode, not a problem so much for tripod shots, or static/macros etc, but imagine buying an 85mm f1.8 MF lens, and erm..well you will have to adjust the shutter speed, not so for models with a lens release options, just put it in A mode, and you get a metered reading. In other words the camera adjusts the shutter speed for you.

[Vidgamer]

I'm not sure this would even be an issue for astrophotography, as you'd need manual control anyway. And most users wouldn't notice a problem, using AF lenses. But one day you want to try out a manual lens, and then it's going to be a noticeable problem. Only thing -- there seems to me to be little incentive for Sony to fix this. I mean, really, what's in it for them to make it easy for you to use a Samyang? I can kind of imagine people sitting around the room and deciding that they'll sell more lenses if they can discourage use of manual lenses, but maybe it was just an oversight. Perhaps they don't even bother testing if manual lenses work at all.

I don't currently deal with any manual lenses so I'm not sure it affects me, but I can see where it'd be a limitation for some. Plus, I like the idea of a relatively inexpensive 85mm prime lens. So, I sympathize. But at the moment, I guess it's not a factor at all, for me.

[bfitzgerald]

Couple of points here.
Sony cannot make you buy their lenses, you are free to purchase 3rd party ones, Tamron, Sigma, soon to be Tokina and other makers, Vivitar etc etc. That's before you even start on ebay Minolta lenses, or even s/h Sony ones. Thus they make 0 profit on any of those. If we followed your line, only chipped Sony lenses would work, and would users find that acceptable? I know I would not.

I also note Zeiss make a number of high end MF lenses for Canon and Nikon mounts. And there are some other specialist lenses, tilt/shift etc.
Sure for telescope work it's probably not a problem, but if I'm shooting with am 85mm lens, then I've enough to worry about with MF, then I have to set the exposure too. So I will have to dismiss your points, simply because Sony's job is not to make things hard for people, it's to offer a DSLR that makes life easier. Whilst not all users will have problems here, this is a pointless crippling that Sony has done, thus it earns my condemnation. Folks, you have to stop making excuses for a company, when they do silly things, even if it might not have a huge impact for some, it will for others. BTW, that 85mm lens is meant to be pretty good.

[Greg Beetham]

So let'a see if I've got this right, previously too shoot with a lens that does not have any circutry (contacts), ala MD lens or similar, you select no lens in the shutter menu option, and you are able to select an f-stop on the lens (dark viewing potentially), but the camera still sets a shutter speed in A mode...correct?
Now what happens exactly? the shutter won't fire at all? no shutter speed set? no menu option to fire the shutter without a lens? or that option just doesn't work in A mode? .....is it any one, or all of the above?
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

Example, 5d select "shutter lock off: no lens"
This allows the shutter to fire if the body does not detect a lens (obviously)
The same option is also present on my film 7,5 and 60.

The camera will set the metering aka shutter speed, if a lens or a jam jar is fitted, or even nothing at all
Camera will fire the shutter, and take the shot.
With the A200/300/350 A230/33/380 450/500/550 and A850/900, you have no option for shutter lock, shutter is released only in M mode, metering is there (aka an in the VF you get an over/underexposure scale), but you must set the shutter speed yourself.