PMA round up

[Javelin]

Thats right with all the cameras except the A100 and A700 if you have no chipped lens attached you can not release the shutter in Aperture priority where your shutter speed would set itself to expose the shot properly. Every camera entry or not has had this function disabled since the A700 came out including the A850 and A900. So if your using a scope/ bellows/ adaptered MD lens/ lensbaby/ Pinhole cap ... your strictly in manual mode.

[Greg Beetham]

Ah, ok. Not overly handy...the f-stop will have to be pre-set first (dark viewing) and then the corresponding f-stop set on the camera, then the shutter can be set...for a ballparkish exposure...
I can't see why they would have taken the A-mode option away...after the photographer synchronizes the f-stop on the body with the f-stop on the lens the camera should have no trouble with setting a shutter speed..one would think.
I wonder if S mode would work? then the camera could auto set the body f-stop to match the light coming through the 'whatever' on the front. But without the menu option that won't work either I guess.
Greg

[Javelin]

with non coupled lenses there is no body F-stop. the number becomes meaningless. The camera meteres what it sees through the lens regardless of the aperture setting on the body and adjusts the SS accordingly.

[Greg Beetham]

What do you mean no aperture? (I have never used an MD or such lens on any of my bodies so it's unknown territory, for me it's theory only), in S mode you set the shutter not the body, so in theory all the body has to do is set the other half of the expoure ie. f-stop.
Greg

[Andy B]

The A100 or the A700 does not recognize the aperture. No matter where you set the F/stop manually, the LCD reads F1. In A mode, the camera measures the amount of light coming through the lens and sets the shutter speed accordingly to give what the camera meter thinks is the correct exposure. S mode will not work. The camera cannot set or adjust the f/stop.

[Javelin]

Ahh sorry. on the old manual focus lenses the F-Stop was set on the lens itself by turning an aperture ring. so on a regular zoom lens, out on the lens itself, there was a focus and zoom ring (often the same one -turn for focus push pull for zoom) and an aperture ring that would click into place for each F stop Those were set on the lens and only shutter speed on the camera body. The aperture is part of the lens not part of the camera as is focus and zoom. on the AF lenses the camera does control the F-stop but the lens doesn't have an aperture ring at all so if thats all you've got experience with then it's no surprise that you have never seen an aperture ring..

in S mode the camera has to be able to control the aperture to set the exposure and it has no physical connection to those parts on the lens so it can't work. on the other hand in A mode the camera will use the meter and adjust the shutter speed to accomaodate the light coming in at the time the shot is taken

What do you mean no aperture? (I have never used an MD or such lens on any of my bodies so it's unknown territory, for me it's theory only), in S mode you set the shutter not the body, so in theory all the body has to do is set the other half of the expoure ie. f-stop.
Greg

[alphaomega]

Part of this discussion about the ring flash is above me but I do have the MD 50mm Macro and a glassless MDtoAF adapter which I would use on my A700.
I agree with Walt's rantings over the "A Cripipling" functionality on the A850/900 combo. I basically think Sony shot themselves in the foot here and I agree entirely with Barry Fitzgerald's sentiment:

So I will have to dismiss your points, simply because Sony's job is not to make things hard for people, it's to offer a DSLR that makes life easier. Whilst not all users will have problems here, this is a pointless crippling that Sony has done, thus it earns my condemnation.

There comes a point where companies become so arrogant towards their customer base that the base simply decides to go elsewhere. Let's see what Sony does next but their stubbornness does not bode well. If they intend eventually to enter the pro market in a big way, the last thing they should do now is to chase away the few pro photographers they have now. Simple is'nt it?

[Greg Beetham]

Jav ol' pal, I still have my X700's and my collection of MD lenses, so I'm familiar with an f-stop ring, the thing I don't have (yet) is an adapter to fit any of them onto the A-mount cameras I have....so I can see exactly what happens in S-mode or A-mode etc.
Greg

[Javelin]

I'm sorry. that must have sounded condescending. I didn't mean it to sound that way honest. I took your reply to mean that you didn't understand the connection the camera had with the manual lenses or how the MD lenses worked.

Jav ol' pal, I still have my X700's and my collection of MD lenses, so I'm familiar with an f-stop ring, the thing I don't have (yet) is an adapter to fit any of them onto the A-mount cameras I have....so I can see exactly what happens in S-mode or A-mode etc.
Greg

[Greg Beetham]

I'm sorry. that must have sounded condescending. I didn't mean it to sound that way honest. I took your reply to mean that you didn't understand the connection the camera had with the manual lenses or how the MD lenses worked.

No it's cool, what was lurking around in the back of my mind was the thought (as they are want to do), that maybe there is more than one type of brand/model of adapter, there might possibly be perhaps one that could provide linkage for the diaphragm on the MD lens set at minimum f-stop (like we used to do for P-mode on the X700), so the camera could have full access to the f-stop range on the lens....I really can't see why that shouldn't be possible, with a properly engineered adapter....
Greg

[Greg Beetham]

Yep, I agree with Walt and Barry on this issue, it's all very well too make things more complex, faster, better, with incredible recording power, but if you sacrifice any functionallity that photographers were using 20 years ago, where is the advance? it's more like and advance sideways.
I hope that trend doesn't continue, but with the missing function buttons on the new prototype A7x it doesn't look too promising...
Greg

[Javelin]

There will be a lot of extra room and infinity focus on those new mirrorless bodies. I wish I knew how the lenses are stopped down. or rather how the body tells how far to move the lever to make the right aperture.

[bakubo]

There will be a lot of extra room and infinity focus on those new mirrorless bodies. I wish I knew how the lenses are stopped down. or rather how the body tells how far to move the lever to make the right aperture.

Did you see the Novoflex link I posted? I think those adaptors have an aperture ring.

[alphaomega]

Most of the comments on this thread have been about the A700 successor provisionally named A7XX. I would like to make a couple of comments on the three EVIL models. It is quite clear from the mock-ups that these will not have an EVF incorporated. It will be interesting to see if Sony follow the Olympus lead and incorporate an accessory shoe mountable EVF or provide one as an expensive option like Panasonic or simply ignore the requirement. I was thinking about this on my return from Largs in Scotland, having just brought along my Panasonic LX3. This is a fantastic P&S shooter at low ISO, but I was noticing that the compositons were not exactly they way they should be, because the sun was strong and low, and I only had the rear screen for composing. Detailed scrutiny was impossible. An EVF would have been a real bonus. If Sony do not provide a usable EVF at a reasonable price and suitable micro lenses such as say 10-20, 16-80 and perhaps 50-200 I would not be remotely interested. Not having EVF and a good range of smaller quality lenses would negate the benefit of a smaller body. A single focal length "pancake" lens would be of no use to me. On the other hand, if EVF and small quality lenses are provided I might go for the top EVIL model complete with EVF in preference to the new A7XX for portability, but certainly not until 2011 or maybe later.

[Vidgamer]

Couple of points here.
Sony cannot make you buy their lenses, you are free to purchase 3rd party ones, Tamron, Sigma, soon to be Tokina and other makers, Vivitar etc etc. That's before you even start on ebay Minolta lenses, or even s/h Sony ones. Thus they make 0 profit on any of those. If we followed your line, only chipped Sony lenses would work, and would users find that acceptable? I know I would not.

....
enough to worry about with MF, then I have to set the exposure too. So I will have to dismiss your points, simply because Sony's job is not to make things hard for people, it's to offer a DSLR that makes life easier. Whilst not all users will have problems here, this is a pointless crippling that Sony has done, thus it earns my condemnation. Folks, you have to stop making excuses for a company, when they do silly things, even if it might not have a huge impact for some, it will for others. BTW, that 85mm lens is meant to be pretty good.

What, you think that speculating that they want to deter people from using manual lenses (such as the newly popular Samyang) is a good excuse? If anything, I think that would be more crummy than if they did this because they were clueless, but hey, that's just me.

I'm not sure where you're going on this crusade, but I'm more curious to know why they made the decisions, good or bad, rather than just say "Sony sucks", which doesn't tell me much.