The 550 is dead?

[bakubo]

1. DSLR with traditional mirror and A-mount--yes, but WITH video. I'm pretty sure the A5xx & A7xx cameras will have video, & I believe the A9xx will also. At this point, however, the A290/390 do not have video.
2. DSLR with pellicle mirror and A-mount--video--yes--with EVF.
3. NEX with no VF only LCD an E-mount--video--yes, but soon I expect we'll also see NEX with EVF.
4. NEX VG-10 videocam with E-mount.

If video is going to be in the traditional mirror SLRs too then what is the main reason for having the pellicle mirror SLRs? Just so they can have an EVF rather than an OVF? Having an EVF for a small camera like the NEX makes sense to me, but with the current capability of EVFs I can't quite see why anyone would choose it over an OVF when the camera is the same size and shape of a traditional mirror SLR.

By the way, this is still all your guessing/hoping, right?

[David Kilpatrick]

If somebody want's to tell us all "who Sony are aiming at" I'm all ears!
And don't say point and shoot users because I won't believe you

Women, Barry. Sony keep repeating this at every press conference I attend. They are targeting women, not men, with their cameras. They believe that women are the memory-keepers of every family and women are potentially the camera users today, where once this was a 'male thing'.

Even in the professional realm, I know this has happened. 30 years ago when I joined the MPA, there were half a dozen women in the organisation. Now, every time I get the lists of new recruits, 75% are female. But they, of course, are professionals and not the females Sony is targeting!

David

[David Kilpatrick]

If video is going to be in the traditional mirror SLRs too then what is the main reason for having the pellicle mirror SLRs?

Wait and see the fps rate. Sony is said, by some people in the know, to be about to blow every other maker out of the water. One contact of mine claims to have used prototypes and shooting at 15fps was mentioned.

Of course, this could be an invention/wishful thinking/misunderstanding of something. But this contact was very sure, even two years ago, of what Sony had up their sleeve.

(NB: think about it - 60fps 1920 x 1080 is possible, Sonly only achieves 30fps right now - but that means 15fps at 3840 x 2160 - more than useful).

David

[bakubo]

Women, Barry. Sony keep repeating this at every press conference I attend. They are targeting women, not men, with their cameras. They believe that women are the memory-keepers of every family and women are potentially the camera users today, where once this was a 'male thing'.

My wife is definitely much more interested in the looks and size of a camera than much of anything else. Specs, features, etc. are completely unimportant to her because she just has no interest in learning anything such as apertures, shutter speeds, ISO, exposure, etc. She just wants her photos to look as good as if she knew, understood, and could control all that stuff.

In 2007 I was using a Canon 30D, but bought an A100 just to try out since after getting rid of the KM 7D I no longer had a body for my Minolta lenses. She had never used an SLR before but she thought the A100 was pretty "cute." I suppose because it wasn't nearly as big or heavy as the 30D. I only had it for less than a month before she convinced me to give it to her. Of course, I still use it from time to time, but mostly use the A700. She wanted a camera that didn't have shutter lag and better IQ than a digicam. I set her A100 up so that it is just about as automatic as it can get (not green mode though) and if I see that she is taking a photo where something needs to be adjusted then I change the settings and hand it back to her.

She wishes her A100 was even smaller though.

[UrsaMajor]

Women, Barry. Sony keep repeating this at every press conference I attend. They are targeting women, not men, with their cameras. They believe that women are the memory-keepers of every family and women are potentially the camera users today, where once this was a 'male thing'.

I've previously posted the same comment here by one of Sony's "Artisans in Imaging". One can argue whether or not that assessment of the market is valid, but I think that it is clear that this target has driven many of their designs that have been released in the last year or two.

As I posted here about a year ago, I gave my daughter-in-law an A330 for her birthday, as she wanted a DSLR for capabilities that her P&S did not have - mostly for pictures of her son, who was then six months old. She has been very, very happy with the capabilities of the A330 and its ease of use for her. In her case, Sony seems to have done an excellent job of hitting their target with the A330.

Completely aside from the feature set of the A330, there is no way that I would have ever bought that camera for my own use, as the grip was literally agony for me to hold after only a couple of minutes. However, before I ever purchased the camera, I had my daughter-in-law hold it for several minutes and handle it as she would when actually taking pictures. For her, it was a great fit and the grip was comfortable - she is slender and only about 150cm tall, with hands in proportion.

In addition, on a much later occasion I was talking with "the Alpha specialist" while in a SonyStyle store. He told me that when a couple came in to purchase a DSLR, he knew which camera would be purchased as soon as he asked them who the primary user would be. If the man was to be the primary user, they would leave with an A550. If the woman was to be the primary user, they would leave with an A330 or A380. A very high percentage of the time, the couple left with an A330 or A380.

My perception is that Sony has been doing a good job of hitting their target market with the cameras they have been releasing.

Is that target market really as large as Sony expects?

I have no way of knowing, as I have no idea what sales they expected, and no idea of how their sales have compared to those expectations.

With best wishes,
- Tom -

[bfitzgerald]

Well Tom how do I put this but I think Sony are misguided and wrong to target women users "at the expense of male users"
Not the last part of that at the expense of. (and IMO it's not working anyway)
15fps is of absolutely no interest to some shooters such as myself if you can't even set the Auto ISO limit on these models or have good ergonomics. Might be a boon for sports shooters almost useless for my type of photography.

Sony need to get the basic stuff right first then start playing around with the other bits.

[UrsaMajor]

Well Tom how do I put this but I think Sony are misguided and wrong to target women users "at the expense of male users"
Not the last part of that at the expense of. (and IMO it's not working anyway)
15fps is of absolutely no interest to some shooters such as myself if you can't even set the Auto ISO limit on these models or have good ergonomics. Might be a boon for sports shooters almost useless for my type of photography.

Sony need to get the basic stuff right first then start playing around with the other bits.

I happen to disagree with your assessment. As far as I can see, there have been minor shortcomings in almost every camera that Sony has released, but IMO they have made only two really significant errors when one takes into account what appears to have been the target market for each camera - and one of those errors does not involve design.

The first error was the A900/A850 lens limitation - which IS a design flaw, and one that I can see no excuse for not fixing in software. The second error was to discontinue the A700 without having a replacement available, which is not a design flaw but apparently a result of a change of opinion regarding the "need" for video to compete effectively in that market niche. (This assumes that the rumors are correct that the arrival of the A700 replacement has been delayed because it was pulled back for a redesign to add video.)

Personally, I am very satisfied with my A700 and at this time I see no reason to replace it with any other camera until such time as it dies completely enough that the cost of repair makes a new camera financially attractive. (The lack of availability of an A700 replacement at this time is a mistake on Sony's part for that reason, IMO, as I doubt that I am unique in this regard.)

Frankly, when I see people moaning that Sony is not releasing "new models" of the A700 - A900 classes of camera every 18 months, I just shake my head in disbelief. Perhaps it is because I am older, and have used every one of my cameras for many years - several decades in a couple of cases - but I just cannot relate to the desire to go the route of the camera du jour. If and when Sony releases a new camera with some performance improvement or new feature that meets my desires enough better than the A700 to get me to open my wallet, I will do so.

I do not see that camera on the market today from anyone, so the primary criticism I have of Sony is that they are not currently selling either the A700 or a replacement for the A700 that I could buy if necessary. Fortunately, I still have - and use - my KM 7D and my KM A2, so I have a bit of an insurance policy against the death of my A700. IF Sony were to state that they do not intend to replace the A700, my opinion would change. However, a Sony executive in the appropriate position has publicly stated that they plan to replace the A700, so I currently feel comfortable with my personal situation.

Please note that I am not saying that Sony is currently meeting the needs and desires of everyone who is in the market for a camera in the A700 - A900 classes. If I were a professional sports photographer, I would hesitate to invest in a Sony system at this time. If I were a serious macro photographer like Walt Knapp - and did not already have a large amount of legacy Minolta hardware like he does - I would not look seriously at Sony. However, these customer categories - and several others as well - are relatively small niche markets. Personally, I think that Sony needs to get into those markets eventually if they are serious about achieving the market share they say is their goal. However, one needs to keep in mind that it has been only 4 years since Sony moved into the DSLR market, and economics alone provides a strong reason for them to initially put the majority of their resources into "bread & butter" products to help pay the bills. Like it or not, the "bread & butter" products are the cameras at the lower end of the market.

With best wishes,
- Tom -

[alphaomega]

In my opinion you can go on like BF and criticise every new Sony DSLR or NEX while holding on to your A200 (rather than switching to a suitable competitor) or take Tom´s view that Sony are not all that bad but at some time must attend to the needs of specialised photographers. Personally I am quite happy with my A700/A350 and A550 line-up. In terms of features I would certainly like the A550 to have P-shift and intermediate ISO settings as in the A700, but by and large these cameras produce excellent pictures and I have no desire to switch to another supplier. The cameras I have can do the job I require. I would like Tokina to release their 16.5-135 for A mount but you cannot have everything the way you like it. I actually bought an A550 before they disappeared as I think it produces excellent pictures, is fast and has a great rear screen and LV feature. It is not perfect but I recommend that BF sells his A200 plus lenses and buys the "perfect" camera from a Sony competitor. He is entitled to continue his criticism of Sony, but what is the point? They may not be listening and he will never get the "perfect" Sony that suits him. What about a D90 with a Sony sensor for BF?

[Winedarksea]

If somebody want's to tell us all "who Sony are aiming at" I'm all ears!
And don't say point and shoot users because I won't believe you

Women, Barry. Sony keep repeating this at every press conference I attend. They are targeting women, not men, with their cameras. They believe that women are the memory-keepers of every family and women are potentially the camera users today, where once this was a 'male thing'.

Even in the professional realm, I know this has happened. 30 years ago when I joined the MPA, there were half a dozen women in the organisation. Now, every time I get the lists of new recruits, 75% are female. But they, of course, are professionals and not the females Sony is targeting!

David

I know that Barry seems to denigrate the market strength of the quickly growing number of women photographers, and I have no statistics, but practically every week I learn of another young woman, frequently already an artist, who has taken up photography in a very serious way. To be fair, I live in a community that in many ways revolves around its monthly arts walk/festival, Friday for the Arts!, and we are 23 miles from one of the two largest art schools in the US--but honestly I believe that things are rather the same throughout a very large part of the US--the largest markets for new users of whatever camera are women & young people. Sony would be just plain stupid to ignore this huge emerging market--which is btw easier to break into than the male market, with its deeply-ingrained disposition to value Canikon over all others.

[bakubo]

In Japan and here in Hawaii I see more women with SLRs, usually a Canon 400D, 450D, 500D, or 550D, than I used to. Also, pretty often carrying an Olympus E-PL1. I have also seen 3 NEX cameras carried by Japanese here in the last couple of weeks, but only one was a woman. She had a NEX + 18-55mm and she was standing right in front of me taking a photo at the beach. I could look right over her shoulder and see how hard it was to make much out on the LCD. Fortunately, she was just taking a general scene of the beach and ocean so didn't need to see much. By the way, I see Japanese women with old MF 35mm SLRs fairly often too (in Japan and in Hawaii).

[bfitzgerald]

Ok let's bash me I don't mind
In response to the "sell the A200" I would if it were not bought as a gift for me. I once made a mistake of selling a gift and things were not good after that. Regardless the A200 is probably worth more to me as a working camera. And I would add it's a camera that sadly Sony cannot match even after 2 attempts at it.

I disagree females are the bulk of DSLR buyers. I'm sure they account for a decent number but if you target products to one group at the expense of another you are asking for trouble. That's pure and simple common sense. What happens with NEX I don't really care as it has nothing at all to do with A mount or DSLR's it could sell a billion times and I would still gladly ignore it. And if Sony's women target plan is so wonderful then why do the big makers (who sell far far far more DSLR's than Sony) not do this and yet thump Sony at every class and price range? Let's talk turkey Sony's strategy has not worked..and will not work.

I would not be surprised if Sony hired Tony Hayward tomorrow..(insert huge smiley!)

Come back and talk to me when Sony's dumb it down yield massive sales..until then it's the same rhetoric we got when the A230 was released on the market.."it's not for you" Truth was it was not for anyone! I see women with DSLR's just not Sony DSLR's reality bites hard at times..

[Winedarksea]

1. DSLR with traditional mirror and A-mount--yes, but WITH video. I'm pretty sure the A5xx & A7xx cameras will have video, & I believe the A9xx will also. At this point, however, the A290/390 do not have video.
2. DSLR with pellicle mirror and A-mount--video--yes--with EVF.
3. NEX with no VF only LCD an E-mount--video--yes, but soon I expect we'll also see NEX with EVF.
4. NEX VG-10 videocam with E-mount.

If video is going to be in the traditional mirror SLRs too then what is the main reason for having the pellicle mirror SLRs? Just so they can have an EVF rather than an OVF? Having an EVF for a small camera like the NEX makes sense to me, but with the current capability of EVFs I can't quite see why anyone would choose it over an OVF when the camera is the same size and shape of a traditional mirror SLR.

By the way, this is still all your guessing/hoping, right?

First, as DK has already stated, the A33/55 cameras will likely have MUCH faster fps, which (as Barry says) is not for everyone, but is certainly an advantage for many kinds of photography, not just sports & wildlife.

Second, the pellicle cameras will have phase-detect AF, so that with video, AF will be much faster.

Third, with the pellicle cameras, there will be no mirror slap--a great advantage, as Barry has often pointed out.

As to whether what I have said is "still all [my] guessing/hoping"--no, most of it is from Sony Alpha Rumors. Sony itself, however, at PMA, by showing us the mockups for the A7xx & A5xx, told us that those cameras would have HD video.

SAR has stated, in a rumor ranked level 5 (corrobated) that the A33/55 & the A5xx cameras (two of them) will be introduced the last week of August; that all four cameras would have HD video; & that the A55 would have a 16-mpx sensor. It is MY assunption that the A33/55 would have a big brother at the A77 level, at least--&, if it does, that it will be released soon. If the pellicle system works well, and they really do have 15 fps, for example, what a beast that would be! Think of that in combination with a highly improved phase-detect AF system!

SAR has also stated, in a level 4 rumor I believe, that Sony has advanced its schedule for the A7xx, though probably not in time for introduction at Photokina, and that "we know" that it will have an 18-mpx sensor. It is MY assumption that means we'll see the A7xx come somewhere between the opening of Photokina and the middle of November.

Finally, Andrea at SAR, today I believe, on his FaceBook site. said that he had had word from a source (he is trying to corroborate before putting this rumor on his website) that the A9xx has also been accelerated, & should appear soon, but probably not in time for Photokina. He hinted at a 30+-mpx sensor & video.

I am hoping that the delay in the A7xx has had more to do with improved AF systems than anything else.

[bfitzgerald]

Winedarksea do you think FPS sells cameras on it's own? I personally doubt that it does bar some action shooters. And yes I have tried a
Canon EOS-1D Mark III @10fps, this type of body is entirely unsuited to my type of shooting (too big, heavy and clumsy..not saying it's bad just not suited..I'd take one for nothing though!)
Second point it's not entirely clear if we will have OVF or EVF's in these models.

The other point to make is HD video which is great but as I am sure many will be looking at other areas not just HD video and super fast FPS. I'm also thinking there must be a reason Canikon have not gone down this road for DSLR's (pellicle) I'm having trouble assuming they've missed something and Sony has not, but I'll be prepared to keep a slightly open mind.

My other bones of contention relate to basic stuff like handling and customisation (A2-5x series are entirely devoid of custom settings and yes it does matter) Can't even set Auto ISO which would be useful..read a K-x manual to convey many other thoughts about custom settings (more the better)

So cut to the chase do Sony really think (or anyone else for that matter) that a beefy FPS and a basic bunch of cameras is going to sell? It's going to take an awful lot more than that in my view.

[Winedarksea]

I disagree females are the bulk of DSLR buyers. I'm sure they account for a decent number but if you target products to one group at the expense of another you are asking for trouble. That's pure and simple common sense. What happens with NEX I don't really care as it has nothing at all to do with A mount or DSLR's it could sell a billion times and I would still gladly ignore it. And if Sony's women target plan is so wonderful then why do the big makers (who sell far far far more DSLR's than Sony) not do this and yet thump Sony at every class and price range? Let's talk turkey Sony's strategy has not worked..and will not work.

Come back and talk to me when Sony's dumb it down yield massive sales..until then it's the same rhetoric we got when the A230 was released on the market.."it's not for you" Truth was it was not for anyone! I see women with DSLR's just not Sony DSLR's reality bites hard at times..

Women are not the bulk of dslr buyers--but they constitute a very substantial proportion, and perhaps the largest number of the new buyers.

The NEX cameras obviously appeal very much to men as well as women.

Sony's strategy is simplify! simplify!--not dumb down. Every advance in photography--indeed photography itself--has been achieved in an effort to make it easier to do something. You can quibble about the details of how Sony has tried to make it easier--but not the concept itself.

We'll see what happens with the NEX, in the long run--but I for one think Sony has the scent & will see it through to record-breaking sales. And I think the A5xx, A7xx, A9xx, A33/55--and still other cameras--will build on this wave. So yes, Barry, I'll be back.

By the way, there may even be one or two "manly" cameras in the bunch that's coming.

CZ 24 f2 coming on Tuesday!

[Winedarksea]

Winedarksea do you think FPS sells cameras on it's own? I personally doubt that it does bar some action shooters. And yes I have tried a
Canon EOS-1D Mark III @10fps, this type of body is entirely unsuited to my type of shooting (too big, heavy and clumsy..not saying it's bad just not suited..I'd take one for nothing though!)
Second point it's not entirely clear if we will have OVF or EVF's in these models.

The other point to make is HD video which is great but as I am sure many will be looking at other areas not just HD video and super fast FPS. I'm also thinking there must be a reason Canikon have not gone down this road for DSLR's (pellicle) I'm having trouble assuming they've missed something and Sony has not, but I'll be prepared to keep a slightly open mind.

My other bones of contention relate to basic stuff like handling and customisation (A2-5x series are entirely devoid of custom settings and yes it does matter) Can't even set Auto ISO which would be useful..read a K-x manual to convey many other thoughts about custom settings (more the better)

So cut to the chase do Sony really think (or anyone else for that matter) that a beefy FPS and a basic bunch of cameras is going to sell? It's going to take an awful lot more than that in my view.

For many people, fps is a very big deal--and not just photographers traditionally described as action photographers. For example, a photographer taking informal shots of a person engaged in a conversation--could be a journalist, a wedding photographer, or a woman or man taking shots at a party--it's amazing how important fps is to these folks, as facial expressions are extremely fleeting.

As for size & weight--the A33 & A55 will be very small--they are level 3 & level 5 cameras--even though the A55 will have, apparently, a 16-mpx sensor. And, yes, they may be "made easy," like the NEX 3 & NEX 5--although I get the impression that they will be somewhat more outwardly traditional. But then, this is the reason I expect both a NEX 7 & an A77. I think the full power of these systems will not be realized until we see cameras at level 7.

The A33/55 will almost certainly have electronic viewfinders.

A lot depends on Sony's solutions to the problems that caused Nikon & Canon to leave pellicle designs behind more than three decades ago. We'll see. My own guess is that Sony would not be introducing these cameras were it not that they have solutions. If they have, the benefits are clear. A lot of people are looking forward to these cameras with great expectations.

Btw, there may well be much more than high fps & great video to these cameras. Like maybe 14- & 16-mpx sensors, high iq, maybe even much better AF--for starters.

And A7xx, A9xx, many lenses, & more right behind them!