Tilt and Shift... with the NEX system

[BrianSmith]

Good to see you here Brian. I have the Lensbaby 3G which managed to fall apart during messing around on the NEX-5., now reassembled but the 'movement' rods are not very secure! I was studying it to see whether the optical unit could be replaced by a superior quality 'normal' lens rather than one with deliberate aberrations. Mine seems to be about 52mm focal length. If the mount could go directly on a NEX body,a lens around 30-35mm focal length could be fitted.

Thank you David.

You might want to give the Lensbaby Composer with the glass front element a try. Much sharper than the plastic original. Though the appeal of sharper is in the eye of the beholder...

Despite the existence of RF bodies with about 25-28mm depth, no company has ever made something like a shift adapter from 35mm SLR lens to RF body, otherwise there might have been something to go between a Leica M adapter and a Nikon/Canon/Minolta etc lens.

There are actually a couple very simple reasons for that.

FIRST: Rangefinder focusing simply "won't work" with tilt. Rangefinder focus is predicated upon a perfectly flat focal plane. The second you start whomping the front of the lens around, focus goes out the window. But Live-view fixes that.

SECOND: If you were to tilt or shift the frame lines of the rangefinder viewfinder are no longer accurate so you're also just guessing what you're going to get. Once again, Live-view fixes that.

THIRD: If you want to tilt or shift you need a lens that covers more than the normal field of view. The reason why most T/S adapters have used medium format glass is because full-frame 35mm generally won't allow tilt/shift on a ff sensor, BUT it will allow T/S on an APS sensor.

So all three of the above reasons are why you have seen one before and why you may finally see T/S adapters for NEX.

[Kenneth Sky]

Let's assume there was enough demand for a T/S adapter -say, 10,000 units. The economics of covering the R&D and manufacture would make it prohibitively expensive. My guess would be $400 plus.

[Javelin]

for 10k units it would likely be cheaper even if you were maiking it in NA. 400 bucks sounds like a good price poibnt for the first one out. those T/S lenses from everyone else are way more expensive and this could potentially be a lot more usefull.

[David Kilpatrick]

Brian, I know tilt is impossible without the ability to check focus; but shift is not impossible even on an RF - I worked for several years with the Plaubel Proshift, nothing much but a giant Leica in its crude way, and the simple coupling of its accessory viewfinder made the shift of the 47mm Super Angulon (equivalent to a 21mm SA on Leica) easy enough to rely on without groundglass. And before that the Linhof with wireframe allowed the same hand-held architectural quick fix.

We have had APS-C and APS-H rangefinder digital Leica bodies for the past six years, admittedly only from Epson and Leica. The relatively small lens throat and lack of live view would have been some deterrent, but it's interesting to note that no-one has ever made - for example - a simple Leica R to Leica M shift adaptor with 5mm rise/cross.

Perhaps it is the size of the market opened up by 4/3rds and NEX, and the huge change in Chinese CNC production abilities, which has produced the flood of inexpensive adaptors.

LensBaby never sent me a Composer, only the 3G, which I thought was better optically - or claimed to be, with all-glass lens and fully lockable 'movements'. I think the Composer is a better price deal and probably just as usable in practice.

David

[pakodominguez]

LensBaby never sent me a Composer, only the 3G, which I thought was better optically - or claimed to be, with all-glass lens and fully lockable 'movements'. I think the Composer is a better price deal and probably just as usable in practice.

Hello David,

The first Lensbaby (the Classic) was a f2.8 lens and had uncoated optics. The Lensbaby 2.0 changed optics, with f2.0 coated optics. The 3G (now called "Control Freak") have the same optics than the 2.0 but a different mechanism that allows to repeat the effect -that was IMHO a huge step. With the Composer, Lensbaby introduced a new system where you can use the barrel as a "holder" for different optics, including a "plastic" optic, pinhole, fisheye, etc...

So you are right: your 3G have (or had, since apparently you ruin your lens...) "better" optics than the Classic Lensbaby, the plastic and the rest of the system but the standard Composer.

Just one remark, the Lensbaby is not a tilt and shift lens AT ALL, but a selective focus lens. I don't think Lensbaby want to develop anything closer to a tilt and shift lens since that kind of technicality and the idea of sharpness is not in the "policy" of the company Lensbaby is just for fun!

[David Kilpatrick]

Pako, I have only ever used LensBaby for fun effects not to tilt etc. But the 3G mechanism with a conventional lens cell fitted could be promising. I have a 35mm f/5.6 optical unit small enough to replace the 3G lens, but I have not destroyed my 3G - it screwed back together, wondering whether to add a drop of superglue to stop the threaded post unscrewing from its little ball joint.

I do plan to look at it further and see whether the existing lens unit could be removed and replaced. The Composer would be easier to drop my high-quality lens into but can't be locked like the 3G.

David

[pakodominguez]

Contact Sam Pardue or Craig Strong, Co-Founders of the company and really nice guys. They can probably help you on this project...

[BrianSmith]

Let's assume there was enough demand for a T/S adapter -say, 10,000 units. The economics of covering the R&D and manufacture would make it prohibitively expensive. My guess would be $400 plus.

That's why it probably won't come from Sony. But don't be surprised if you see one made in China on eBay for a hundred bucks...

[BrianSmith]

Brian, I know tilt is impossible without the ability to check focus; but shift is not impossible even on an RF - I worked for several years with the Plaubel Proshift, nothing much but a giant Leica in its crude way, and the simple coupling of its accessory viewfinder made the shift of the 47mm Super Angulon (equivalent to a 21mm SA on Leica) easy enough to rely on without groundglass. And before that the Linhof with wireframe allowed the same hand-held architectural quick fix.

That is reason number FOUR. In the film days there were many better compact Medium format film solutions that were much more elegant than bolting a Leica R lens the the front of a M-body just to get a small rise...

We have had APS-C and APS-H rangefinder digital Leica bodies for the past six years, admittedly only from Epson and Leica. The relatively small lens throat and lack of live view would have been some deterrent, but it's interesting to note that no-one has ever made - for example - a simple Leica R to Leica M shift adaptor with 5mm rise/cross.

Again, no Live-view. Having 5mm shift means little but more shift AND tilt that you can SEE is a totally different story. Not enough people plopped down five grand for a M8.

Perhaps it is the size of the market opened up by 4/3rds and NEX, and the huge change in Chinese CNC production abilities, which has produced the flood of inexpensive adaptors.

You bet it does.

LensBaby never sent me a Composer, only the 3G, which I thought was better optically - or claimed to be, with all-glass lens and fully lockable 'movements'. I think the Composer is a better price deal and probably just as usable in practice.

Fully lockable isn't a deal breaker, is it? I used to shoot with a Fuji 680 all the time, Usually handheld and rarely locked down the tilt or faeces. The composer pretty much stays where you set it and has a separate ring for focus It won't lock in place but it's not made like a slinky either. Just buy an extra "element" and have someone see if they can rip that out and mount the another lens in it's place. Could be cool.

[pakodominguez]

The composer pretty much stays where you set it and has a separate ring for focus It won't lock in place but it's not made like a slinky either.

I'm not sure I'm understanding properly, but you can fix the position of the composer with the black ring near the mount

[David Kilpatrick]

I am thinking - Camera Bellows LCD shade. Tiny flexible bellows which stays where you put it, for £10. Easy enough to fit mount/lens to.

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-cam ... e/p1008847

Just ordered it. They were made for small rear screens. I remember getting a sample and giving it away. It is just the right size to make a tiny tilt bellows with a manual lens head on the front. Paper glue & card job.

David

[Dusty]

I am thinking - Camera Bellows LCD shade. Tiny flexible bellows which stays where you put it, for £10. Easy enough to fit mount/lens to.

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-cam ... e/p1008847

Just ordered it. They were made for small rear screens. I remember getting a sample and giving it away. It is just the right size to make a tiny tilt bellows with a manual lens head on the front. Paper glue & card job.

David

So in effect you're creating the NEX View Camera? Why not just get an old 2 1/4 inch view camera, remove the bellows and mount the NEX body? Lots of tilt, shift, swing......

Dusty

[David Kilpatrick]

Someone has a bag bellows Horseman (normally £2500 with lens) digital view camera - with an EOS mount on the back - for sale for £895 used only once in the UK. It would be easy enough replace the EOS back panel with an Alpha 900 or the NEX, or a future live view Alpha full-frame. But I can not justify that.

I had a look at available old Linhofs and suitable cameras, all too expensive. I can't really think of anything except certain old Ihagee, Nettar and similar hand-and-stand models, and the real problem is (as I know, having experimented with them loads when I started out) the bellows is so rigid it only allows lots of movement when fully extended. I had a triple extension Ihagee quarterplate once.

I've got an idea, it's going to be friendly enough to the lens unit I have.

David

[BrianSmith]

The composer pretty much stays where you set it and has a separate ring for focus It won't lock in place but it's not made like a slinky either.

I'm not sure I'm understanding properly, but you can fix the position of the composer with the black ring near the mount

Pako,

The black ring at the bottom of the photo is simply what you hold and turn to mount the lens.

The ball in the center is what controls the tilt. It's like an arthritic knee joint. It stays just where to put it.

The black ring on top is the focus. Is rotates independently of the arthritic knee joint.

Even though you probably have 1,563 of them in stock at your store, I'll bring mine to dinner tomorrow

[pakodominguez]

Pako,

The black ring at the bottom of the photo is simply what you hold and turn to mount the lens.

The ball in the center is what controls the tilt. It's like an arthritic knee joint. It stays just where to put it.[/quote]
Wanna bet? You have the composer with you? well: rotate that black ring and you'll fix the ball...

Even though you probably have 1,563 of them in stock at your store, I'll bring mine to dinner tomorrow

Alas, I don't think Adorama have that many lensbabies on stock... but they (I'm "adoramapix"...) support Lensbaby since their beginning.

See you tomorow