DPreview guys in a twist again

[Neonsquare]

The NEX, A33 and A55 show a dark screen even with internal flash or external on-camera sony flash when put in M-Mode? So actually those cameras are really always blind in M-Mode with flash balanced to be near the only light? That really sounds much worse than I thought before.

[Greg Beetham]

I haven't handled any one of the new LV models much less tested them if various conditions/situations, but I get the impression from what has been said that the screen doesn't auto gain in M mode, so I gather there is still a screenview of some sort but not very bright if the ambient lighting situation is low.
Actually I think it's about time that when reviewers do a review they test the whole camera including the flash system, and that includes system flashes not just the popup flash and the daylight photo taking portion of the camera.
Alas, once again you can look at the specifications list of a camera till the cows come home but it's what they don't say that's the important thing, not so much what they do say.
I suppose you could also think back to what a proper studio camera system used too cost, like a Mamiya RB67 for example, thousands right? Or take the cost of the A900 or A850 or D3x or 1D or Leica or Hassy plus whatever lights, stands, reflectors and compare that to the price of an A33.
Greg

[Neonsquare]

Yes - of course, the A33 might not be the typical studio camera - but this restriction also applies to all those, who like to use strobist gear; be it in the studio or not. It seems it even isnt't actually restricted to the use of crude equipment like chinese radio transmitters but even using the built in flash (!) or an on camera sony flash (!) would not work in M-Mode if you choose to balance flash over ambient light. Actually I'm using M-Mode almost exclusively when shooting with flashes - without a flash I'm mostly using A or S depending on the situation.

I really hope that Sony puts up a firmware update which makes it possible to choose auto gain in M-Mode.

[KevinBarrett]

Yes - of course, the A33 might not be the typical studio camera - but this restriction also applies to all those, who like to use strobist gear; be it in the studio or not.

Whenever I'm doing portraits, I'm shooting outdoors (subject's choice, usually) with the camera in M mode and an F56 flash-gun firing through an umbrella. I could probably work with a lot of handicaps to get the shots I want, even a dim viewfinder, but I couldn't work with the A33 or a55's slow maximum sync speed of 1/160. Shooting in daylight, I'm at 1/200 or 1/250 most of the time.

[Greg Beetham]

Yes KB I know where you're coming from there, I struggled with the X700's 1/60sec sync speed for many years; not very handy here in the tropics, you end up on f22 on occasion. I take it you're shooting in M mode with TTL and WL? what ISO, 200? I guess below EV15 ISO400 perhaps. Why not just shoot in A mode? or even P mode with Auto ISO?
That's one of the main hassels I think, that there is no ISO choice below 100, some cameras don't even have ISO 100, you are stuck with ISO 200 as the lowest and that's it. I still think that we shouldn't have too consider using ND's: the camera co's. should get their act together and have an ISO choice below 100, the same as in the film days where you had quite a few choices below ISO100. It balances out with flash power, more or less, you can shoot with more open f-stops and a shallower DOF as a bonus but the flash would still be working just as hard as ever most likely, it's the more open f-stops is what we are chasing in daylight falsh fill.
Greg

ps. You know what I reckon would be really really cool, if Sony brought out a few portrait leaf shutter lenses that could flash sync up to 1/1000sec, and when the replacement A900, A850 and A700 appeared they have the ability to lock their FP shutters open automatically when mounting one those lenses.. (it's a mechanical lock so it doesn't waste any battery power).

[dvincent]

The NEX, A33 and A55 show a dark screen even with internal flash or external on-camera sony flash when put in M-Mode? So actually those cameras are really always blind in M-Mode with flash balanced to be near the only light? That really sounds much worse than I thought before.

No, if you have the built-in flash raised or a System flash attached (e.g. F58AM), the camera will boost the gain automatically.

The trouble is when there's nothing to supply a flash ready signal to the camera, such as the dumb adaptors used to attach a radio trigger.

[Neonsquare]

Hi Daniel,

did you really try that in M-Mode? I still have to get a grip on one of those SLTs to try it out. If you're right one could probably hack something together using some old sony/minolta flash and an iISO->iISO adapter with PC sync socket.

[David Kilpatrick]

Of course, you get a normal view with the built-in flash in M mode but - you get some odd results even with the NEX. You can select long shutter speeds, and it will warn you when the exposure is going to bleach out the shot, by brightening the screen. But you can't select shorter speeds than 1/160th in M mode, and the screen brightness remains constant, while a display shows you how much the ambient exposure is below/above the correct setting. You have to study a small -2.0 display (in dark conditions) and for synchro sun, adjust the aperture and manual shutter speed to get this to (for example) -0.5

The flash fill should then be normal, with a synchro sun effect for fill

David

[Neonsquare]

I do not think the flash will trigger back through a shoe adaptor, it's a one-way process.

I did try it today. I did setup my A550 and Metz 48 AF-1 in WL-Mode and placed the Metz besides an old Regula Variant flash on a RF602 receiver. I've put Pixel TF-323 iISO->iISO adapter under the Metz and linked its PC-socket to the RF602 transmitter.

The result: It worked. The A550 in my hand triggered using Sony WL the Metz on the floor which triggerd the Regula over RF602. Since internal flash is used as a control flash the A550 showed that there is a compatible flash on. Therefore the SLT should boost up its EVF shouldn't it?

[Neonsquare]

Another note:
Someone in the German (Sony/Minolta Board mi-fo.de) found out, that you actually can mount adapters on the Hotshoe AND popup the internal flash. This wasn't possible on models before the SLTs. So besides of the workaround I described it is also possible to just popup the internal flash, set the camera to WL-Mode and then just use accessories using hot-shoe adapters.

[kstyle888]

Another note:
Someone in the German (Sony/Minolta Board mi-fo.de) found out, that you actually can mount adapters on the Hotshoe AND popup the internal flash. This wasn't possible on models before the SLTs. So besides of the workaround I described it is also possible to just popup the internal flash, set the camera to WL-Mode and then just use accessories using hot-shoe adapters.

On the A33 you can indeed popup the internal flash and use hotshoe accessories. I tried a Bowens radio-trigger, IR flash, and PC-cable using FS-1100 shoe. All worked. One thing though: when the internal flash was up I couldn't get a sync, because of the pre-flash (which can't be turned off AFAIK). When the internal flash is down though, I got perfectly triggered and synced flashes, except I couldn't see what I was shooting. Very frustrating! When the screen is bright (LV boost), the resulting photograph is dark (no sync). And when the screen is dark (no LV boost), the picture is bright (synced flash).

Patrick.

[David Kilpatrick]

For info, the Alpha 550 does not allow M mode and auto gain even with the built-in flash popped up, in Quick Live View. I need to check again, I think I got it to work in MF Live View but I was surprise to find that popping the flash up in normal QLV did NOT give me any thing except a dark manual-accurate view.

David

[Neonsquare]

@David
Regarding the Alpha 550: Yes you're right. It doesn't do auto gain in QLV and actually always in MF Check LV.

Was there any effort to inform Sony about the need for a menü option "Auto Gain in M-Mode: On/Off"?

Could anybody else replicate the sync issues when using external hotshoe triggered flashes and the internal one set to WL flashing on SLT?

[KevinBarrett]

@Greg

I'm usually shooting manual all the way, between ISO 100 and ISO 320, depending on how much light there is, and I'm usually shooting after sunrise or before sunset in the fleeting horizontal light. My lights are synced by an expandable HH-PC cord kit that I made from adapters and speaker wire. I like to stop down to f/4 to 5.6, then underexpose by about 1.3 stops, and give a 1/2 power pop from the flash to get the exposure. It's pretty ham-handed, but it's fun for me, and fun for my subjects.

[Greg Beetham]

Ah so, how's that turn out KB, like a twilight effect?
Greg