Sony looks to change the world of DSLRs - Masashi 'Tiger' Im

[Greg Beetham]

Yep it's what sells that counts, we'll just have to wait and see how good the 'A77' is as to whether it will sell or not in the 7 market segment, I suppose if the camera is cheaper to make than a more complex 'A750' type the financial hit isn't so much if they don't sell as many as they allocate for. Otoh it might turn out to be a very good camera and become a 'must have' then Sony might be back in the same boat, not being able to make enough of them...we'll see, time will tell.
Greg

ps. People sure do take a lot of notice of Barry though just the same, I notice....

[mike2008]

Yep it's what sells that counts, we'll just have to wait and see how good the 'A77' is as to whether it will sell or not in the 7 market segment, I suppose if the camera is cheaper to make than a more complex 'A750' type the financial hit isn't so much if they don't sell as many as they allocate for. Otoh it might turn out to be a very good camera and become a 'must have' then Sony might be back in the same boat, not being able to make enough of them...we'll see, time will tell.
Greg

ps. People sure do take a lot of notice of Barry though just the same, I notice....

Trolls always get people's attention. It's their job.

[Jasper_D]

ps. People sure do take a lot of notice of Barry though just the same, I notice....

Trolls always get people's attention. It's their job.

Like you just succeeded in doing very well, as your one liner contributes nothing at all to the discussion at hand! So much so, that you could post it in any threat having Barry as a poster somewhere. Totally meaningless.

Barry is talking photography, obviously not to your liking, but photography nevertheless. Unlike you, he´s not liking the idea of an SLT (only) future, so what? Neither do I and a lot of others. Note that for me, the accent would be on the word ´only´. I´d like to have a choice, until one technology proves better than the other on all points. As long as it appears not to be, it would at least give me the choice of choosing that one which suits me best. Which right now is the pentaprism (A900) OVF, for me anyway. If Sony will not offer that in the long run while it´s not replaced with something better either, that will be a pity for us, and nothing we can do about. But we can say what we think of it, called our opinion, even beforehand. Your hammering changes nothing to that.

[Scooterman]

I have been taking to a few of my friends Nikon/Canon/Pentax also a rare breed Olympus user , (sorry Huw). (New E-5)
The discussion was new technology in camera equipment; no I did not start it!
Overall the consensus was that the new Sony A-7** or whatever it will be, if it has the promised specification it will be a real winner, the Canon user (Canon7D/5Dmk11) said the Sony was like a breath of fresh air on a stale industry.
I just hope that Sony don’t let us down and do deliver a new camera for the advanced users.
The biggest gripe was with Pentax and the K-5, sending out bad batches with sensor marks on them, many have been returned to the shops and my friend is still waiting for his replacement he is hoping it will arrive next week. Slower service from Pentax now that it is being done by contract service agents.
Regards
Richard

[bfitzgerald]

Thanks for your explanations Barry. It gives me a better understanding of what drives you.

What drives him isn't photography it just happens to be what he knows about. In my line of work I have met many like him.
It doesn't matter if Sony make quantum leaps forward as they have practically done, he needs his crusade as much as air, food and water
He needs you guys to respond as you have done. Reasoned response won't work as you have seen. The only way is to ignore him you can't have a tennis match with just one player, he would soon get fed up and go home.

Regards

Davy.

All that effort to get people to stick to a topic and you go off again making personal comments.
I am driven by photography I always have been these are merely tools that we use, and we have different ideas of what we want or like. It's nothing more than that.

I don't post to "get a response off anyone" I just put my case that's it all you have to do (which you can't seem to) is accept we disagree, nothing more or less..astonishingly simple.

As for the comments you made about Sony/best thing to happen etc that really depends if you like what they are doing. I've come to understand folks from years past when the insisted on sticking with a traditional camera brand (whatever that may be) At the time I thought they were just narrow minded maybe some were, but I honestly think that these makers do have a better understanding of the needs of users. Sony has become too consumer lower end based, at the expense of enthusiast photographers.

[alphaomega]

Barry is entitled to his views. Got this through sonyalpharumors.com. Look here http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcatego ... month.html
Not sure how good your japanese is but it is clear that the NEX-5 black with 18-55 is doing well and if you add in the chrome version at No. 6 you can see what Sony's eyes are focused on - models climbing in the sales charts. What is happening in Japan just now will probably spread. Not an Axx or Axxx in sight in the top 10.

And look at this http://photorumors.com/2011/01/14/sony- ... o-819-200/ (My way of counting would get 3x6 to be 18 rather than 16Mp and not sure what "ISO will be up to 819 200" means. Looks like a bit of exaggeration). Maybe three sensors would also provide a lot more dynamic range?
Maybe pure fantasy but it could be true as they are already doing it in a video camera. David Kilpatrick may have an opinion as to whether this is the A77 to top the APS-C pile for technology as promised by Sony.
As I have repeatedly stated, I think it is time for those hankering for a traditional DSLR with OVF from Sony to get off the bus as it seems to be speeding away from such traditional devices. There is no point in going on and complaining about Sony here if that type of traditional camera is the only one you will buy. Go somewhere else and go now is my humble opinion as I doubt Sony will be listening. I don't even think they will be doubling up now with a DSLR as they have with A55/A580 and A33/A560.

[Greg Beetham]

Like you just succeeded in doing very well, as your one liner contributes nothing at all to the discussion at hand! So much so, that you could post it in any threat having Barry as a poster somewhere. Totally meaningless.

It might be meaningless to someone a bit slow. There was a poster on the previous page who advised that everyone should ingnore Barry and then went on to do everything but that.

Barry is talking photography, obviously not to your liking, but photography nevertheless. Unlike you, he´s not liking the idea of an SLT (only) future, so what? Neither do I and a lot of others. Note that for me, the accent would be on the word ´only´. I´d like to have a choice, until one technology proves better than the other on all points. As long as it appears not to be, it would at least give me the choice of choosing that one which suits me best. Which right now is the pentaprism (A900) OVF, for me anyway. If Sony will not offer that in the long run while it´s not replaced with something better either, that will be a pity for us, and nothing we can do about. But we can say what we think of it, called our opinion, even beforehand. Your hammering changes nothing to that.

I'm saying that it is theoretically possible for Sony to produce a good 7 SLT that would be a must have, whether they actually do that is something else all together, like I said, time will tell. If Sony screw something up, like the flash system for instance that they screwed up in the A33/A55/A560/A580 you can be sure I will let them have it...both barrells. Also you must have missed when I said I want choice as well.
Greg

[Jasper_D]

???

Guess my English is becoming a bit rusty now... I was reacting on Mike´s one liner triggered by your PS Greg, not on your post. I thought that was clear from my answer, but I´ll confirm it here. All the same I´ll stick to my comment.
Furthermore, I do read all posts in a thread before reacting, be assured of that.

[Greg Beetham]

Yeah even I can get testy on a rare occasion Jasper_D, sorry about that. I had a mind set carried over from the other thread on the A77 where I decided perhaps foolishly to give Sony the benifit of the doubt until the camera is out and on the reviewers desk. Seeing as now we are only going to get a choice of one type of camera everyone is going to examine the 7 SLT with a microscope and if it has problems with overheating, short battery life, image aberrations, glitches with the system flash etc. there is going to be trouble in the camp...regardless of what any self appointed Sony messiahs want.
Greg

[peterottaway]

Greg it would appear that you will have at least two choices a NEX 7 and a SLT 7.

As long as those who would critique any Sony camera on an objective manner and on a dollar for dollar basis and not on the basis that it isn't a Canon / Nikon. Yes Sony does have a lot to answer for in its lack of development of a quality flash system, but whether this is a blind spot or if Sony has decided not to continue with the Minolta system is still an open question. For myself I am definitely an available light photographer with reflectors and scrims aided by a little fill flash so Sony has not really alienated me - so far.

Unfortunately much of the photographic hardware industry is based on closed systems. Unlike say the music industry or your AV equipment. It doesn't matter whether you play in a rock tribute band, a jazz quartet or an early music instrument chamber group,the instruments from any number of manufacturers from one man hobbyists to multinational companies will play together. The same goes for televisions, hi fi equipment etc. As much as manufacturers would love it, you do not have to buy a brand A TV to receive a channel A or a Brand X blue-ray player to play a movie disc from that company.

So sometimes with camera companies you will find that your needs or preferences are diverging from what a specific company is doing. If you cannot find an acceptable workaround then it is time to part company. Annoying yes, even frustrating and costly in time and money but if it is important to you then thats what you will have to do.

[Scooterman]

Greg it would appear that you will have at least two choices a NEX 7 and a SLT 7.

As long as those who would critique any Sony camera on an objective manner and on a dollar for dollar basis and not on the basis that it isn't a Canon / Nikon. Yes Sony does have a lot to answer for in its lack of development of a quality flash system, but whether this is a blind spot or if Sony has decided not to continue with the Minolta system is still an open question. For myself I am definitely an available light photographer with reflectors and scrims aided by a little fill flash so Sony has not really alienated me - so far.

Unfortunately much of the photographic hardware industry is based on closed systems. Unlike say the music industry or your AV equipment. It doesn't matter whether you play in a rock tribute band, a jazz quartet or an early music instrument chamber group,the instruments from any number of manufacturers from one man hobbyists to multinational companies will play together. The same goes for televisions, hi fi equipment etc. As much as manufacturers would love it, you do not have to buy a brand A TV to receive a channel A or a Brand X blue-ray player to play a movie disc from that company.

So sometimes with camera companies you will find that your needs or preferences are diverging from what a specific company is doing. If you cannot find an acceptable workaround then it is time to part company. Annoying yes, even frustrating and costly in time and money but if it is important to you then thats what you will have to do.

I quite agree Peter, I may be one of the older types that have Photography as a hobby but I am not a “stick in the mud” person that won’t embrace new technology if it is beneficial for me to do so.
I am using the A-580, ok it is not a DSLT it is a DSLR and the results I get with the new sensor and firmware is a good advancement, I can now take the type of shots that would not have been so easy a couple of years ago and the metering system is as good as it gets for the money as is the AF.
If the new cameras A-7* or what ever, another advancement, maybe Sony will get some more of my cash, if not what I have got may just see me out.
Far too many Luddites out there.
But as you say “If you don’t like what Sony are doing you can always change brands”
I did from Pentax K-20, AF too slow and noisy sensor and the K-7 no better.
Olympus E-30, lenses a problem in longer length and expensive also noisy at higher ISO’s, and then Canon 7D also a 1Dmk2n after using the 1D the 7D was in my mind very second rate, I could have gone for the 1Dmk3 but a days use of that monster would not be on, far too heavy for me.
So it is Sony that I chose and it works for me.


Regards
Richard

[Jasper_D]

Yeah even I can get testy on a rare occasion Jasper_D, sorry about that.
Greg

I´m glad we agree again Greg. Your concerns are also mine for a large part, especially IQ and overheating. I have never owned a camera that suddenly gave up shooting (for another reason than being broken), I don´t think I would like it now or in any future.

[alphaomega]

Good to hear from someone from Switzerland. Hope to get there again this year.

I´m glad we agree again Greg. Your concerns are also mine for a large part, especially IQ and overheating. I have never owned a camera that suddenly gave up shooting (for another reason than being broken), I don´t think I would like it now or in any future.

by Jasper-D.
I thought that the overheating issue related to video only on NEX and SLT models and switching off SSS extended the time before "frying" sets in. The NEX and SLT models have smaller batteries so only half of what the larger NP-FM500H can provide in the Alpha models. I think that concerns about IQ in these new models is over blown a bit. My short experience of the NEX-5 with 18-55 indicates excellent IQ for a camera of that size. Even Thom Hogan admits that of all the small cameras Sony's NEX-5 has the best IQ and ISO performance up the scale. Third party batteries are now so cheap that having a couple extra in a pocket or bag will not burn a hole in the budget. I bought the A580 (althouogh I did not need it) but I reckoned it would be the last Sony APS-C DSLR. I really do believe there is no point in going on complaining about Sony's direction. Go with it or jump ship.
I posted this above (without getting a reaction or comments

Look here http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcatego ... month.html
Not sure how good your japanese is but it is clear that the NEX-5 black with 18-55 is doing well and if you add in the chrome version at No. 6 you can see what Sony's eyes are focused on - models climbing in the sales charts. What is happening in Japan just now will probably spread. Not an Axx or Axxx in sight in the top 10.

And look at this http://photorumors.com/2011/01/14/sony- ... o-819-200/ (My way of counting would get 3x6 to be 18 rather than 16Mp and not sure what "ISO will be up to 819 200" means. Looks like a bit of exaggeration). Maybe three sensors would also provide a lot more dynamic range?
Maybe pure fantasy but it could be true as they are already doing it in a video camera. David Kilpatrick may have an opinion as to whether this is the A77 to top the APS-C pile for technology as promised by Sony.
As I have repeatedly stated, I think it is time for those hankering for a traditional DSLR with OVF from Sony to get off the bus as it seems to be speeding away from such traditional devices. There is no point in going on and complaining about Sony here if that type of traditional camera is the only one you will buy. Go somewhere else and go now is my humble opinion as I doubt Sony will be listening. I don't even think they will be doubling up now with a DSLR as they have with A55/A580 and A33/A560.

The signs are there for all to see. The sales of NEX-5 are going up and Sony have even issued a gold plated version. Sony will play to their technological strengths.

[bfitzgerald]

Japan is an interesting market but if you combine Europe and the USA they are far bigger. I'm sure NEX is doing pretty well but it's unlikely to be selling to the same levels in other regions.
And the overall market is still dominated by..traditional DSLR's from the top 2 makers the SLT rankings in Japan are not particularly impressive. I believe it's doing pretty well combined in other regions but I very much doubt SLT on it's own will be enough to drive Sony to new heights in the camera industry.

[alphaomega]

Japan is an interesting market but if you combine Europe and the USA they are far bigger. I'm sure NEX is doing pretty well but it's unlikely to be selling to the same levels in other regions.
And the overall market is still dominated by..traditional DSLR's from the top 2 makers the SLT rankings in Japan are not particularly impressive. I believe it's doing pretty well combined in other regions but I very much doubt SLT on it's own will be enough to drive Sony to new heights in the camera industry.

Well Barry, it is all a matter of opinion and intelligent guesswork. They said something along the same lines about Google some years ago and Microsoft were barely concerned. Look at Apple's resurgence on the back of technology and smart marketing. Time will show who wins the battle. In five years time we will have a good idea how Sony and Panasonic stand v. the "old brigade". My "gut feeling" is that Sony are doing the right thing playing on their technology in video, sensor technology etc. trying to create a new market situation. Scooterman made an interesting obeservation above that you could not spend a day photographing with the Canon 1D. Others have made the same observation. I bought the NEX-5 as I realised that my LX2/3 were good but limited. With a little extra weight and bulk I will be able to replicate DSLR shooting with 1/3 weight and bulk when sufficient E mount lenses are available. I have already widened my NEX opportunities with the excellent W/A converter giving me 18mm in 35mm language. My ClearViewer effectively gives me a sort of EVF for $53.00. The NEX-5 is as good as my A550 for my kind of picture taking.