A77, am I the first to notice?

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KevinBarrett
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

Unread post by KevinBarrett »

David Kilpatrick wrote:Thanks Kevin for your moderating advice! They can revert to inventing stupid insults in place of clever ones (anyone remember a couple of years ago?).
I remember those events quite clearly. :)
David Kilpatrick wrote:The rear view shows a screen tilt mechanism which is tautological. If there are side arms, of any kind, the bottom swivel-hinge can not operate. As shown, the screen could not be reversed to the body or aimed forward under the camera - and it could not articulate like the NEX - unless there a dual carriage. That would involve a NEX-type mechanism on to which an A55-type mechanism is mounted. It is possible, but unlikely, and this detail makes me very suspicious about the verity of the images.
I have to wonder, then, if you've ever seen this image:

Image

That screen looks pretty well versatile to me!
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Birma
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

Unread post by Birma »

Ah - so it appears to be a combination of both arm and swivel mounts for the lcd. Difficult to tell, but it looks like you may be able to totally reverse the lcd for protection. Still will not help people who want to video themselves, but looks great for tricky macro shooting close to the ground.

Looks like the 65 has no top plate LCD, where as the 77 does? If this is right then the latest SAR image is of the 65 with a more curved right hand shoulder rather than the flatter 77.

If Sony bring out the A77, A65 and Nex 7 too close togther I am going to have to lie down in a dark room just to recover from the excitement :lol: .
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

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David Kilpatrick wrote:
As for the Rumours images, I am amazed by the comments. It looks nothing like a Canon 7D and actually has a close resemblance to Pentax's current shaping but melded back with the classic Minolta 9xi.
You've got to be kidding. There is a striking resemblance to the canon 7D, just look at the silhouette. They have the same sloping shoulders all the way to the side, with a slightly greater height in the 7D due to the pentaprism. From the front the controls are pretty identical, programme control on the right (looking from the front) and while the left hand shutter button / second dial is switched around between the two models.

The 9xi looks like a lopsided hunchback, instead. Sloped on one side, not the other with an ungainly bump on the right. A camera only it's designer could love, and nothing whatsoever to do with the A77.

Image
David Kilpatrick wrote: The rear view shows a screen tilt mechanism which is tautological. If there are side arms, of any kind, the bottom swivel-hinge can not operate.
False too, I'm afraid. the central pivot has a frame mounted on it which allows the LCD to be swivelled via the side arms. Hopefully you'll have a clearer idea of what's going on in three weeks time.
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Birma
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

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It is probably quite a personal thing Mike. I like the look of the A77 and I think the A77 looks more Min 9 than Can 7. Just IMHO of course :D .
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

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Birma wrote:It is probably quite a personal thing Mike. I like the look of the A77 and I think the A77 looks more Min 9 than Can 7. Just IMHO of course :D .
Fair enough. I wouldn't like to be the innocent guy in a line-up when you were doing the picking though.
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

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mike2008 wrote: The 9xi looks like a lopsided hunchback, instead. Sloped on one side, not the other with an ungainly bump on the right. A camera only it's designer could love, and nothing whatsoever to do with the A77.

Image
I was wondering, for how long did you use the 9xi in order to acquire the authority to state this model could only be loved by it's designer?
In other words, did you ever had a Maxxum 9xi in your hands?
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Birma
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

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mike2008 wrote:
Birma wrote:It is probably quite a personal thing Mike. I like the look of the A77 and I think the A77 looks more Min 9 than Can 7. Just IMHO of course :D .
Fair enough. I wouldn't like to be the innocent guy in a line-up when you were doing the picking though.
I'd hate for you to be in that line up as well Mike :D .
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

I had not seen those pictures, but that is what I meant by having a NEX type carriage holding the swivel. It seems a bit more versatile, but the most important position for the screen is not demonstrated, which is front-facing. The problem with the Nikon D5000 (etc) and A55 (etc) is the mechanism used which can not allow waist-level viewing with many tripod heads (you must use a tripod with less than 23mm radius between the bush and mountplate edge), and only allows hanging-down position for facing front.

All these issues are fully overcome by Canon's 550D/600D etc screen with the side-mounted hinge. Exactly what patents prevented Sony from using this much simpler, lighter design which is also even more friendly for vertical compositions, I have no idea. This new design will allow full use of the screen with tripod heads of a reasonable size, and it looks as if you can get the screen to face forwards over the top of the camera, for self-filming and self-timer groups.

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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

I'd be interested to see some top plate shots let's hope they have a WB and ISO button on there!
Sony have finally achieved their goal of expunging all traces of Minolta from their model range personally I never cared for the xi range design wise I think the last bodies from Minolta were right on the money, mike2008 might complain but they were to many the best handling designed bodies from any maker end of discussion!
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

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bfitzgerald wrote:I'd be interested to see some top plate shots let's hope they have a WB and ISO button on there!
Image

With six total buttons on the top plate besides the shutter, odds are that at least a few of them will be useful. We'll allocate one for the LCD backlight, one for live-view selection, and that's four for WB, ISO, exposure compensation, drive mode, dynamic range, or whatever.
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

I agree with mike2008 (for once) the supposed actual A77 photos look very close to the 7D style except for the LH row of buttons (where they belong).
I think the Canon program dial looks much nicer than the one on the A77 although the A77 one will probably be slightly easier to use. Though the button placement and user interface are probably very different there is one difference that stands out (for me), the Nikon/Pentax on/off switch that Sony now uses, Canon have gone to a LH thumb switch that isn’t as good in my op as the Minolta one that Sony abandoned in the rush to be one of the boys, but superficially the two bodies look quite similar in shape….to my eye.
By the same token the overall rounded and contoured style of both isn’t that much different to the 9xi either if you make allowances for the missing program control dial and the wider film aspect of the body, it’s a theme style just like the square edged boxy look (proper cameras ha ha) was once the accepted style of many camera models through the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s and even a large part of the 90’s.
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

Unread post by aramkostanyan »

Looking all of these pictures and rumors about A77, there are several things that I want to know, as in my opinion they are not small drawbacks.

1. I think that if there would be an external flash mounted on the camera you will not be able to see the LCD from front, as the flash will cover it. Maybe try to use a the joint for LCD from the upper left corner, not like canon, however better view of LCD from front.
2. Ghosting issues on A55. I hope it will be eliminated.
3. Shatter delay when using flash, even external.
4. Overheating while using video with SSS, which I think is already eliminated.
5. Better for studio shooting.
etc.
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

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Apparently, it will be dust/moisture-proofing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o1koYGwBrQ&feature
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

Thinking about 24MP again for a moment, Sony has admittedly improved their sensors; the last16MP was a very good one, If I remember correctly they reduced the space between the sensels without actually reducing the sensel size by much to get most of the gain in MP count (I don’t know if this is a fact or not, but it sounds good), I thought that sensel crosstalk was one of the limiting factors of doing this but Sony has seemingly fixed that problem as well.
Whether this translates into an impact on lens resolution as much as previously thought remains too be seen but as far as file sizes go 24MP is still 24MP and is going to be a bigger file than a 16MP one with extra processing power needed to keep response times down etc. and therefore increased power consumption.
But the thing that I’m concerned about is, the more you have the more you loose; the question is what size file do you need to downsize too before posting on the web before it starts to degrade noticeably? If I compare my 6MP camera against my 12MP camera to get the same appearance quality wise I need to actually post a larger file from the 12MP camera just to avoid obvious degradation in comparison to the smaller MP camera when photographing the same subject, and there doesn’t appear too be much if any gain ‘on screen’ in actual detail from the larger file either, the larger MP camera needs to have a larger web file to avoid obvious artefacts, there doesn’t seem to be any way of working around that that I’ve seen so far.
Seeing as how a lot of the purpose of using a digital camera is based around web use I don’t readily see how 24MP is going to be such a great benefit, except for those who crop a lot or need large files (landscapers might like large files perhaps) or for Alamy; and/or do prints at a huge size maybe. I guess one could always shoot at one of the lesser resolutions in the menu list, but that seems to be a little weird when you could just as easily keep using your existing smaller MP camera and avoid the expense of a new camera, the only advantages of the new one is it’s ‘new’ and also has some additional desirable? features.
But possibly that’s the intent, you now have to choose the MP size to suit the occasion more than you did before, as proposed in those shoddy Sony user demo videos that David has highlighted in his column.
And that’s another thing, how much confidence can you have in Sony’s ability to produce a camera that functions as claimed and is reliable if Sony can’t even produce an accurate video showing how to use it? :roll:
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Re: A77, am I the first to notice?

Unread post by aramkostanyan »

Greg, in my opinion, if you want to post on the web, I usually downscale the MP count and keep the quality to 100%, so you will not see any artifacts.
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