a850/900 firmware update release

[David Kilpatrick]

Agreed re CZ lenses - I think I would need to update the A900 to have CZ lenses to match the look of the A55 with the 16-80mm. I've been shooting with the A580 and CZ and also the Sigma 18-250mm which is no bad lens, but there's a gulf between them - a big one. The CZ really makes use of 16 megapixels.

David

[bfitzgerald]

Someone has posted a link on AMW showing a pdf with an explanation of the update.
So far it says:
Lens release lock on/off
Exp comp now +/-5 stops (vs 3 stops)
Bracketing range now +/- 3 stops
AF performance improved (it mentions telephoto lenses)

No mention of any IQ enhancements.
I'm sure it will be welcomed but frankly it's not really mind blowing is it? The lens release is an issue that continues to haunt other models yet no fw update for those model owners. And nobody in their right mind would have actually removed the lens release option from any A mount bodies in the first place. In fact they don't need an option just let users shoot without a lens.

[stratokaster]

And nobody in their right mind would have actually removed the lens release option from any A mount bodies in the first place.

Let me remind you that Minolta actually released a number of A-mount film bodies without the ability to use legacy glass.

In fact they don't need an option just let users shoot without a lens.

Once again, you have to blame Minolta for that - on all their film and digital A-mount bodies since i-series you have to set custom functions or press some buttons on camera startup to get shutter release w/o lens.

[alphaomega]

Here we go again with Barry Fitzgerald

Someone has posted a link on AMW showing a pdf with an explanation of the update.
So far it says:
Lens release lock on/off
Exp comp now +/-5 stops (vs 3 stops)
Bracketing range now +/- 3 stops
AF performance improved (it mentions telephoto lenses)

No mention of any IQ enhancements.
I'm sure it will be welcomed but frankly it's not really mind blowing is it? The lens release is an issue that continues to haunt other models yet no fw update for those model owners. And nobody in their right mind would have actually removed the lens release option from any A mount bodies in the first place. In fact they don't need an option just let users shoot without a lens.

When other DSLR makers release firmware updates they look after their customers, even when correcting problems that should not have been in the original body release. When Sony comes up with a firmware update it is not "mindblowing". Why has it got to be mindblowing if it is of use to current owners? As I said as far as BF is concerned whatever Sony do it should be belittled in one way or the other.
Maybe BF should follow Shooterman's advice

Try the "Pentax user" forum Barry; they are a very friendly lot over there.
If you think one or two on this one are not so friendly, On PU they will have a contract out on you if you criticise Pentax.

and watch his back if by mistake he utters the slightest criticism of Pentax. I certainly do not mind criticism of Sony, but I think I have read the MLU and P shift gribe a hundred times now. It is time to move on.
Sony have had their problems with getting into top gear as new entrants. I would say that the NEX and A33/55 new entries are good for a first go at a new concept. I am sure that Nikon and Canon are worried about the capabilities of second generation of A33/55 and higher spec. models. Just think of an SLT that is capable of outgunning Canon's 1DIV if Sony can improve continuous AF and release more sports type lenses. Third generation may have these lenses with liquid lens elements that can change focal length in a small housing. A fast 100-500mm telezoom in a housing not larger than the current 18-250 or whatever. I think we have seen nothing yet from Sony and CAN/NIK ought to be concerned. We are only at the starting line of a new generation of cameras.

[alphaomega]

David has made my day

Agreed re CZ lenses - I think I would need to update the A900 to have CZ lenses to match the look of the A55 with the 16-80mm. I've been shooting with the A580 and CZ and also the Sigma 18-250mm which is no bad lens, but there's a gulf between them - a big one. The CZ really makes use of 16 megapixels.David

I am going to fit my CZ 16-80 to my new A580 and do some shooting in the snow if I can get out the door tomorrow. Big falls of snow predicted here overnight.

[bakubo]

I would say that the NEX and A33/55 new entries are good for a first go at a new concept.

The A55 as it is seems pretty interesting to me. If any of you here want to buy my A700 and A100 I would definitely get an A55 to use with my lenses and flash.

[Edgars L]

As BF initially mentioned, camera is outdated when you need to update it. As A900 owner I will evaluate each new model from A900 specs point of view. What will be the reason to spent another 3000$ and what I will get for that money?
LV and video would be nice (not need). But I could get them in A55 for 850$.
Increased MPix number to 35-40M? Then I have to spend additional money for CF cards and PC update.
Improvements in AF, functionality and high ISO should be really mindblowing to spent money for them.

At this time point I would rather invest in new lenses than in new camera.

[alphaomega]

Degars L wrote

What will be the reason to spent another 3000$ and what I will get for that money?

I think that at this point nobody outside Sony know for sure. There have been a few unconfirmed rumours and a couple of near facts. CZ will be confined to producing FF lenses for Sony cameras. Sony have a new FF sensor in development rumoured to be 30+Mp. They have a design on a "liquid glass" lens design where the focal length can be changed through electric currents, enabling a more compact design etc. For all it is worth I would suggest that Sony will bring out at least one new generation of FF DSLRs or SLT types. My guess is that Sony will bring out an A77 and/or A750 with an 18Mp sensor. They will do an A700 to A900 type doubling up to 34Mp and allow APS-C lenses a around 15/16Mp. The FF camera may or may not have video but I would guess that the target would be MF cameras with CCD sensors up to 40Mp. The dynamic range will be expanded and it will wipe the floor with MF cameras at all ISO settings above 200. It will have LV, wireless flash etc. Essentially the camera will equal the best APS-C cameras with APS-C lenses, outdo Canon and Nikon on FF and compete strongly with all MF cameras up to 40Mp and be much more transportable. There will be additional CZ and G lenses. There will be no more FF sensors coming out from Sony after this one. Just pure speculation on my part.

[WaltKnapp]

Let me remind you that Minolta actually released a number of A-mount film bodies without the ability to use legacy glass.

The crippled A mode problem was not a matter of mounting earlier MF lenses, but was all about exposure control in A mode no matter what you used on front of the camera. Retaining the use of the TTL exposure control in A mode with anything other than ROM chipped lenses.

Of course the proposed FF firmware update changing the mount so the old MF lenses mounted without needing adapters would be quite a miracle, wouldn't it

Even in the Minoltas that tried this there was a service mode available to switch off the lens check. My RD-175 had to be switched with the service mode, but once switched the A mode worked correctly for all the years I used it, I never changed the setting back. I made that a specific requirement before I would consider the camera and Minolta immediately came forward with the fix and an apology.

Walt

[kysham]

The A850 suited my needs & wants. It was the cheapest full frame camera I could afford at the time when I made my purchase and it had not failed on me much, yet. Except for times when I wanted to be spoiled with high ISO shots. I don't do that all too often, so I am not so eager to change cameras. The rumored improvement in AF speed & performance with the new firmware really is the ONE thing which I am interested in. The camera could indeed struggle a little in low light AF performance.

[pakodominguez]

Except for times when I wanted to be spoiled with high ISO shots. I don't do that all too often, so I am not so eager to change cameras.

If you expose to the right, noise is not a big issue on the A900/A850, but it could manage noise better...

[Simmondsphotography]

........ but the A700 sensor is incredible good but misregarded, a sleeper -for those that learn haw to get the best of it.

+1

[kysham]

If you expose to the right, noise is not a big issue on the A900/A850, but it could manage noise better...

Yes, pako, THAT is the only way I could make the high ISO shots usable... if I shot underexposed, then it becomes very difficult for me to save the photos.

[pakodominguez]

According to SAR website the firmware update for the a850/900 has been leaked/released by Sony Hong Kong.
1. Release shutter without lens [same as a580/Nex]
2. EV compensation upgrade +3/-3 to +5/-5
3. HDR Enhancement +2/-2 EV to +3/-3 EV [same as a580 upgrade]
4. Improved AF speed and accuracy, especially in the Tele end.
Interesting???

I think that speculation over a rumor is a waste of time. But I read in another
forum (...) similar excitement about how this can mean a replacement for the
A900/A850 (similar as the A700 V4 was follow by the A900 announcement) and I
found this a little depressing: that means that Sony is not working on improve
the AF system, they are just improving the actual system by tweaking the
firmware?

I'm more interested on having a better noise control and fix some metering
issues while using flash, but any improvement is welcome.

[agorabasta]

I think it's quite reasonable to expect better noise properties with a FW update.
The appearance of noise may be tweaked by changing the balance between preamps gain and the ADC effective gain and the further digital scaling, and it's quite possible that the outcome may be optimised beyond the current defaults.
Then there's another way to improve the noise characteristics by tweaking the readout speed or even tweaking the very speed properties of the sensor by slight change of voltages of the analog controls.

In fact, most of the improvements seen in newer Sony CMOS sensors comes exactly from the great progress they have in readout speed that were needed primarily for the video capabilities. Now the normal slow readout used for the still capture happens with much better quality than it used to be with the older slow sensors. So if they found some way to tweak the older sensors' control signals for more efficient/faster readout, we really might expect quite considerable quality upgrade with the new FW. And now they really know how to tweak the sensor for speed...