A couple more pix from the A900

[Vivec]

I agree with your points -- the a700 has indeed some sweet advantages
- price
- popup flash as controller (I use this all the time when doing realestate shoots)
- uses the sweet spot of FF lenses

but the increased DOF is only semi-true since you can always crop the image of the a900 (but of course, why would you buy an a900 in that case )

Sometimes people argue that you get more crop capability on the a900 but in practice I only seem to crop on images that I already took with my longest lens (ie. when I couldn't get any closer in practice), and in that case the a900 does not help.

The big consideration is therefore in how far the image quality in prints of the a900 would be better compared to the a700. At this point in time I have not seen any on-screen image that could not have been taken with an a700 just as well. In print, I can make excellent prints at 8x10"; since I hardly print any larger, I wonder often if the 24 MP of the a900 would give an even crisper or more detailed print at that size than the a700. Any opinons?

[KevinBarrett]

I'd just like to say "welcome" to Vivec! Going to post any pictures of the cliffracers in your neck of the woods? I'm assuming your avatar is an Elder Scrolls reference. Also, to Sonolta, well said.

[caporip]

Sonolta said

"BTW, the a700 popup flash is also a wireless flash controller, and this is a major built in feature that many a700 shooters live and swear by, it will indeed be missed by many on the 900."

You've hit the nail on the head there it is wierd not having that to rely on. I am dissapointed that the new 58 flash is limited to remotely controlling one 56 flash but i spose you can't have everything........

[David Kilpatrick]

However, I somewhat disagree with your above statement. Basically, the a900 is just like an a700 with a bigger sensor and similar sensor technology and pixel density. Therefore, the a900 is a strict superset of the a700 and always "better" (except for price and popup flash).

The A900 is actually a little lower in resolution than the A700, it's midway between the A200 and A700 at 11 megapixels. Although you can just turn on the crop mode permanently, and use it as a 1.5X camera with exactly the same angle of view/aperture/depth of field results as the A700, it lacks the greyed-out viewfinder surround which the D3/D700 offers and the crop-frame corner markings are very fine so as not to interfere with your normal viewing. It is possible to compose with them, but not in an action/fast thinking situation.

Of course, the really big difference is with wider angle views. You can get a depth of field with the 11-18mm at 11mm and an optimum aperture like f9, on the A700, which is greater than you get with the 17-35mm at 17mm and an 'optimum' setting on the A900 (I'd say that f11 is probably a reasonable optimum in this case). What makes the A900 work for me is that the 17-35mm seems much less prone to diffraction sharpness loss when you stop down to the f16 or f22 needed for many deep foreground-background views.

The Nikon 12 megapixel format is even more tolerant of small apertures due to the very large pixels, but in practice I'm still getting more detail from the A900.

Have you checked my full size pBase gallery images? They are very large to view or download, and you can also find some Alpha 700 pix too, and Nikon etc - www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick. Nothing I have used so far matches the enlargement potential of the A900 images, as expected. You probably don't see much difference at 8x10" and there is little point in the A900 except for better shallow depth of field effects, for that size print or screen viewing. But at 16x20" size, you do see a difference and it is for this 'salon size' print the A900 comes into its own.

David

[David Kilpatrick]

Sonolta said

"BTW, the a700 popup flash is also a wireless flash controller, and this is a major built in feature that many a700 shooters live and swear by, it will indeed be missed by many on the 900."

You've hit the nail on the head there it is wierd not having that to rely on. I am dissapointed that the new 58 flash is limited to remotely controlling one 56 flash but i spose you can't have everything........

It will remotely control any number and combination of 56, 36, 42, 3600 and 5600 or other 58 flashes - and Sigmas or Metz models of the 56/36 protocol type - but only at normal power (no ratios can be set or groups defined, if you mix the older models in to the setup). And you must use a 58 as the controller, no other flash will do it.

David

[Vivec]

Of course, the really big difference is with wider angle views. You can get a depth of field with the 11-18mm at 11mm and an optimum aperture like f9, on the A700, which is greater than you get with the 17-35mm at 17mm and an 'optimum' setting on the A900 (I'd say that f11 is probably a reasonable optimum in this case). What makes the A900 work for me is that the 17-35mm seems much less prone to diffraction sharpness loss when you stop down to the f16 or f22 needed for many deep foreground-background views.

Hah, I had never thought of that -- indeed, there just doesn't exist an 11mm lens for the a900. I agree that using the a900 in crop mode might turn out to be quite difficult in practice.

Have you checked my full size pBase gallery images? They are very large to view or download, and you can also find some Alpha 700 pix too, and Nikon etc - http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick. Nothing I have used so far matches the enlargement potential of the A900 images, as expected. You probably don't see much difference at 8x10" and there is little point in the A900 except for better shallow depth of field effects, for that size print or screen viewing. But at 16x20" size, you do see a difference and it is for this 'salon size' print the A900 comes into its own.

Thanks, I will check out the gallery. It is very interesting to hear at which print sizes the mega pixels start to matter. Some argue that one hardly prints at that size -- but the few times that you do, it is usually one of your best images and that is when it can really be satisfying to have a large print.

[Vivec]

I'd just like to say "welcome" to Vivec! Going to post any pictures of the cliffracers in your neck of the woods? I'm assuming your avatar is an Elder Scrolls reference. Also, to Sonolta, well said.

Thanks Kevin. You are right -- I was an avid morrowind fan (you can still find my morrowind mage strategy guide on the web)

[Vivec]

The big consideration is therefore in how far the image quality in prints of the a900 would be better compared to the a700.

Even before a700 V4 this is what Dave at Imaging-Resource had to say about a700 print quality.

"Print Quality
Good print quality, accurate color, good 13x19 inch prints from in-camera JPEGs, excellent ones from carefully-processed RAW files. RAW images capable of making good-looking 20x30 inch prints with little trouble."

Thanks for your reply. I agree with Dave, I have one 13x19 print from the a700 and it looks very good in my opinion -- on the other hand, I don't know how it would have looked if I would have had an a900 .

Many pro's shoot medium format for a reason. There must be something more crisp or magical when you print a 13x19 using 24 mega pixels right? Otherwise, why would anyone use a Hasselblad? Especially since most of those shots are printed in fashion magazines where you are lucky if you can get to 150dpi.

[Dr. Harout]

I think I'm not that late in welcoming Vivec to our forum.
The bear shot is great, BTW.
And seconding Sonolta on the value of Eye-Start, I would simply add that I engage it whenever I want to shoot birds in flight (of course along with wide auto focus area).

[caporip]

Sonolta said

"BTW, the a700 popup flash is also a wireless flash controller, and this is a major built in feature that many a700 shooters live and swear by, it will indeed be missed by many on the 900."

You've hit the nail on the head there it is wierd not having that to rely on. I am dissapointed that the new 58 flash is limited to remotely controlling one 56 flash but i spose you can't have everything........

It will remotely control any number and combination of 56, 36, 42, 3600 and 5600 or other 58 flashes - and Sigmas or Metz models of the 56/36 protocol type - but only at normal power (no ratios can be set or groups defined, if you mix the older models in to the setup). And you must use a 58 as the controller, no other flash will do it.

David

Sorry David

I meant the ratio control. It can, according to the manual control two groups with ratio control the 58 has to be on camera but the off camera flash can be a 56 but only one off camera can be used. I have to admit ive not experimented much with this but plan to soon.

[David Kilpatrick]

I meant the ratio control. It can, according to the manual control two groups with ratio control the 58 has to be on camera but the off camera flash can be a 56 but only one off camera can be used. I have to admit ive not experimented much with this but plan to soon.

I don't know where you got the 'only one 56' - top of page 69 says clearly 'you can use several off camera flashes at the same time'.

Here is an example with the 5600, 3600 and 42 all in a row, being wirelessly controlled using mode CTRL2 via Custom Setting CO3 on the 58, which is attached to the camera and used as a bounce flash controller. The two-group ratio possible is only between the camera (CTRL) and the remote flashes (RMT). The 42 flash is always in the RMT group, and can never be assigned to RMT2; the 56/5600 and 36/3600 are also always in RMT group but can only be fired with the controller set to CTRL not CTRL+ (you get CTRL mode as stated above - adjust Custom Setting 03 to CTRL2, and the plus sign will disappear from the CRTL+, meaning you are now in CTRL mode for two groups only - on-camera and off-camera).



The controller's ratio has been adjusted here to change the level of bounce flash, relative to the fixed TTL output of the remotes. Each remote will give power in proportion to its GN rating. The 56 and 36 make a natural 2:1 lighting ratio, and the 56 with 42 is a bit closer. It's easy to work out - think of 56 as enough light for f5.6 when the 36 gives enough for f3.6 and the 42, for f4.2 - since they use slightly different coverage angles to compute their powers, it is not strictly accurate, but enough to help you get a working lighting ratio without needing further controls.

When the 42 is used with an additional external 58, is always in the Group 'RMT' and the controller is always in the group 'CTRL'. The extra 58 can be in 'RMT' or 'RMT2' groups, but never also in 'CTRL'. Further 42s can not be in 'RMT2', you must have TWO 58s to be able to use X:X:X ratio setting. If you buy two 42s, thinking the 58 can now vary the power of these it doesn't work according to the manual, but I have not tested it.

I could probably draw a Venn diagram to describe this complex-but-simple behaviour. Whatever the case, to get the best from the A900 or indeed the A700 (the 58 must be used on it to get X:X:X or X:X ratio control, the built in flash can not do it) you need either 58/58/58 or 58/48/42 as a set up.

David

[caporip]

Thanks David i think I see where i misunderstood. I read it that i could only use one 56 flash wirelessly in conjunction with the 58 and a900 but in fact you can use two as part of the same group? What your saying is (i think) that i could use the 58 and 2 56's wirelessly as a mini studio set up as it were. This is what i hoped you could do so that's next weekend sorted. I have to say the manual is not that clear on this or maybe it's me being thick............

[David Kilpatrick]

Thanks David i think I see where i misunderstood. I read it that i could only use one 56 flash wirelessly in conjunction with the 58 and a900 but in fact you can use two as part of the same group? What your saying is (i think) that i could use the 58 and 2 56's wirelessly as a mini studio set up as it were. This is what i hoped you could do so that's next weekend sorted. I have to say the manual is not that clear on this or maybe it's me being thick............

Yes, all you can not do is control the 56s at different powers, they are always equal power. Set CTRL2 mode via HVL-F58AM Custom Function C03 to use your 56s.

David

[caporip]

Thanks David i think I see where i misunderstood. I read it that i could only use one 56 flash wirelessly in conjunction with the 58 and a900 but in fact you can use two as part of the same group? What your saying is (i think) that i could use the 58 and 2 56's wirelessly as a mini studio set up as it were. This is what i hoped you could do so that's next weekend sorted. I have to say the manual is not that clear on this or maybe it's me being thick............

Yes, all you can not do is control the 56s at different powers, they are always equal power. Set CTRL2 mode via HVL-F58AM Custom Function C03 to use your 56s.

David

Cheers David

It works:-

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3136/296 ... 3dafdf.jpg