More from Gustav on Sony Alpha in 2010

[bfitzgerald]

I doubt there are more women buying DSLR's then men, look around folks, this is a male dominated activity. Thus I declare the newbie small DSLR range from Sony a failure, even more so as it appears they have ceased production. It was a nice idea to try to make a DSLR for new users, but the market place simply bought Canon 450/500d's and D60's. Best to stick to more conventional designs, this isn't a fashion show, it's about making a product that appeals to a market. And you don't do that with feature stripping and bad handling

[Greg Beetham]

Here's my guess on the rise and fall of the A230, A330 etc.
There was that previously undiscovered market niche that Nikon unearthed with the D40, itself a fairly unfeatured DSLR-needed new SAM type lenses, and relegating a huge amount of legacy Nikon lenses that could be used only in MF mode in the process, but that didn't matter, seemingly, Nikon couldn't make enough of them. I remember thinking at the time that the other brands would see that success and think about 'doing a Nikon' with a similar small bodied [Auto] type DSLR.
That's what I think Sony was doing with the new small DSLR's, problem is by the time they got their's to market, the market was just about D40'd out, or the major demand crest had passed, and now, to sell one of that type, (that wasn't the real thing, a D40 or it's replacement the D60), was going to require some additional incentive...like onboard video that Sony had neglected to add in. (Canon and Nikon by that stage were already putting video into some of their more advanced DSLR's). Had Sony done so I think they might have made a much bigger impression in that market segment, (whatever the actual quality of the video itself), not that most of us could care less about that market segment, but that segment expected a camera to have some sort of video capability by then apart from just taking stills, (even compact cameras could already do video).
That's basically what I think happened to that model line, it was too oh hum, no great reason to buy one, might as well just go with the flow and buy a Canon or a Nikon that the guy behind the counter says everyone is buying.
Greg

[alphaomega]

I am beginning to think that Barry Fitzgerald is probably more right than wrong if I can use that expression. When I purchased my first A700 I had great hopes that Sony would become a real force in the DSLR market. The A900 re-inforced that belief. I began to waver with the intro. of A230/330 & A380. Not much of a "march forward" here. Then the proliferation in the P&S upgrade market to no less than SIX DSLR models with the top end crippled of features Sony could have added at little or no cost to satisfy the majority of enthusiasts but still leaving a space open for a super A750 APS-C camera.

To break into a market dominated by such as Canon and Nikon you need something special and to get the intermediaries on board you do not flood the market with similar models forcing extra stocking costs on them or leaving them to pick a couple of models they might decide to sell.

I really think Sony are lost at the moment. They entered the market probably thinking that Minolta made a hash of it but we know how to be successful. We will utilise Minolta technology and people to start with (A100/700/900) but then we will introduce Sony technology and marketing know-how and we will become No. 2 in a few years or so. Well it ain't happening and it is easy for me to se why having been in sales and supply for over 30 years and the consultancy another 10 years or so. The rot actually started with not getting the otherwise excellent A700 v.1. wrong in the high ISO stakes and the time it took Sony to get v. 4. released. Sad really but I am happy with my A700 v.4. and A350 so I am not worried.

[Heidfirst]

I doubt there are more women buying DSLR's then men, look around folks, this is a male dominated activity.

haven't yet found exactly the article that i remember seeing but this is along the same lines (but not as detailed/informative).
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/ne ... 90850.html

[Winedarksea]

I have been looking around, Barry; what I see is more and more women using dslrs. In fact, in our recently-formed community camera club, the women outnumber the men. And vitually all of the younger people using dslrs are women--at least in our club, which includes some very experienced shooters, both women and men.

Dulaney

[bfitzgerald]

I'm not saying women don't buy DSLR's or use them, I'm just saying that men outnumber them, that's a dead cert, no question.

Also the article above, if that's true and in Japan more women are buying them, they def didn't buy Sony ones, because Sony came "LAST" out of all the makers for 2009 sales, and only the A300 and A350 made it in the year end results, not a sight of the A230 and other models in that range. Whatever Sony "think" they are doing right, it's not working.

I know a few women who do photography and they have no desires for any "copper" coloured DSLR or matching handbags, I've never seen a company be so far off the mark, it's almost hilarious...this arrogance runs through Sony at a high level, they think they know what people want, but they just don't have a clue what's going on.

[Javelin]

This is exactly why women are worth marketing to. It's an untapped segment. Why sell to a market that entrenched with your competition when a different attitude can gain you so much more. Women are buying DSLR's 3 Women around me have bought A230. 330s and A300's recently and one iof then really liked the Brown one. One Man I know just bought a330 and waited for a black one to come in at a competing store because where he wanted to buy it "only stocks" the brown A330 and not the black at all.

[bfitzgerald]

Have to disagree on this one. It's not worth "trying" to market to a specific group, at the expense of another. These models are not storming the sales charts, far from it. If they were selling great, I would simply say..oh well, if it works fair enough. The issue is it's not working!

What puzzles me is how anyone thinks Canikon would have missed this, they do just great with non female targeted models. I think micro 4/3 has more appeal to this sort of buyer than these Sony models ever will.

By far the biggest mistake made was the ignoring of "up graders" Canon have made a fortune off of selling the next new improved entry DSLR to their users, most of the Canon users I know have upgraded 3/4 times. Sony killed that one off by making sure the newbie models were downgrades. Incredibly obvious mistake to make.

I suggest this huge untapped market for newbie/female buyers, is something that only exists in a Sony board room, and it's just not there in the real world. And even if it were, making all 3 models aimed at that buyer, is such a flawed strategy, the only shocking element is that Sony thought that was the right path to take. This is all very very basic stuff indeed.

[Heidfirst]

Have to disagree on this one. It's not worth "trying" to market to a specific group, at the expense of another. These models are not storming the sales charts, far from it. If they were selling great, I would simply say..oh well, if it works fair enough. The issue is it's not working!

Apparently it's working very well for Pentax with coloured K-Xs ...

[bfitzgerald]

Sure, but you have a choice with the K-x a normal black or various colours. Big difference between the A230-380 "girlie style" bodies, and a fairly normal DSLR design in various colours. Choice is the key word here, and choice is something you don't really have with Sony.

You can try to defend their newbie models as much as you like, the market has rejected it, Sony got it wrong, very few would argue with that.

The K-x is also vastly better specified, than anything Sony has on offer in this price segment, this only proves another point, you can have easy to use, with a good feature set, and priced pretty well. Glad you mentioned the K-x, as it's got more appeal than all 6 Alpha's lumped together. I bet new users and more experienced ones are buying the K-x, were it not for the daft non lighting AF points, I'd have taken a look myself. But overall Pentax has one model that shows up Sony's multi line, few differences strategy for what it is, deeply flawed.

[Dusty]

Barry, you make some good points, but Pentax isn't what it used to be.

I remember when the Pentax K1000 was the VW Beetle of the camera work. You saw them everywhere in an amateur's hands, and they did the job. Now, however, it's tough to find Pentax. Canon and Nikon are everywhere, P&S models have become the new Beetle of the camera world, and the SLRs - Digital and film - seem to be a lot smaller market.

I know that global marketing and more disposable income mean they are still good sellers, but compared to P&S models, the percentage of uses are shrinking. Just look at fleabay and see how may film SLRs are for sale with the notes - gone digital. Then figure the DSLR sales figures out. People are trading film SLRs for P&S models.

No, you and I aren't but we're a bit more than casual snap-shooters. Remember that not too long ago the only way to get a decent picture was with a film SLR. Now the digital P&S models give people that quality, at least for their 4x6 inch prints.

Sony didn't get it right on the x30 models, but it's still #3.

Dusty

[bfitzgerald]

Dusty I agree, Pentax is not the champ of DSLR's, far from it. You're right, it's a struggle to find them in shops. And their range is limited.
However, they do at least have some good ideas, from time to time. Maybe the K-x will help them improve. Things went a bit wrong when Hoya ist took over, and in some ways many areas are still to be fixed. For a time they abandoned the budget DSLR market, almost, and it really hurt them IMO.
But maybe Pentax isn't out to make themselves no. 3 or higher, and they probably never will be. If they make interesting products, that might be enough for some users. I wouldn't consider them a viable option for myself, mostly APS based lenses, would not help my 35mm ambitions, and they badly need something in between the K7 and K-x.

Still, I don't see Sony's strategy of flooding the market, as a very successful one, but I guess what happens above the A5xx models will be critical to some users, any mistakes on this, and it could have some major implications. What I do care about is if a company offers products that I feel are appealing to my needs, and I cannot say Sony offer that at the moment. I don't really care much if they make no.2 spot, or what their market share is.

[Heidfirst]

Sure, but you have a choice with the K-x a normal black or various colours. Big difference between the A230-380 "girlie style" bodies, and a fairly normal DSLR design in various colours. Choice is the key word here, and choice is something you don't really have with Sony.

You can try to defend their newbie models as much as you like, the market has rejected it, Sony got it wrong, very few would argue with that.

well the K-X is a pretty small body, if anything it's a tad smaller than an A230 so that should make it "girlie style" too.

We simply don't have the figures to say whether the market rejected it (the Japanese market is a very strange one - especially when Sony doesn't sell certain models there or introduces them late - so you can't project results elsewhere from it) & as we don't know what Sony's aims/targets were for all we know they may consider them a success.

[bfitzgerald]

Kinda odd argument line here, you link to an article suggesting how in Japan, loads more women users are buying and using DSLR's and joining photo clubs etc etc. Then I tell you Sony came last for sales! (which they did) And you still feel the need to suggest "I cannot say if it's working or not"

It's a bit obvious, but erm if Sony didn't sell well in Japan (and their sales are nothing short of a disaster in this region), and Japan is having a "women DSLR users boom" (and I don't know if that's accurate or not) I don't think it's entirely out of order to say Sony's plan isn't working that well.

As for other regions, well have a look around..it's not hard to see that their sales are not as good as the previous entry model range. It's reasonable to say, not only do many male photographers not dig the A230-380 range, but it seems few women find them awesome buys either. You can't have it both ways, if you present a case for more women users in a region, and Sony flop there sales wise, it's not supporting your point one bit!

[Greg Beetham]

Here's some DSLR sales figures in Japan for 2009, I couldn't find any US figures, so far. The A230, A330 and A380 don't even make the page.
http://43rumors.com/japanese-dsrl-sales ... year-2009/
Greg