A77

[bfitzgerald]

Oh, one more thing. I am sick of hearing the term "real photographer". What the hell is a "real photographer" & why do they have to be snobs?
I always thought anyone who enjoys photography was a real photographer. Maybe I'm mistaken.

The term is meant to describe certain areas that are important to photographers..it's not a "snob statement" far from it.
Things like direct access to controls such as WB and ISO are important (well to some) stuff like customisation can be a factor too..bits like sweep pano, smile shutters, and other consumer "gimmicks" are nice to play with but less important than bare bones bits like, MLU, DOF preview, control over NR on jpegs, high ISO limits etc. I can live without some stuff..and I don't mind gimmicks thrown in there. I see a toy camera mode on the K-x, I doubt I will bother trying it. But you get the basics right then add the "fluffy stuff" least that's my view.

Maybe we should use the term "real cameras" this is 2010 yet Sony seem far behind rivals in many basic areas. And some of these matter to shooters.

[OneGuyKs]

The crappy AF in lowlight on Kx is reported by several reviews -- not by Sony fans on DPR forum. It might be better than the piece of junk Miolta 5D, but it's below average for 2010 standard. Kx might be okay camera for A200 & 5D owner, but next to A55, it's a joke.

As for "real photographers", he means just him. He has a habit of speaking for the entire universe when he is talking about himself. Kx is a piece of junk for "real photographers" (battery, no AF confirmation in viewfinder, etc).

[Lonnie Utah]

Regardless of how good or how bad the Pentax is, my main worry would be it's lack of market share and finding accessories for it. It's already hard enough for me with Sony and they have about a 10% share, much higher than Pentax's 1.5....

[bfitzgerald]

OneGuyKs maybe you cannot grasp what I am talking about. As all EU sales have a cooling off period, if I felt the AF was a bad as you say I'd simply return it. Reality is the AF is good. And I have a film 7 with me as well so I can compare to that. Of course the 7 with it's built in AF assist lamp is the business esp low light..but I have to say the AF is fast and appears accurate on the K-x, it's not as slow as some suggest low light either. I should know I shoot low light enough. I've used plenty of cameras from all makers so I feel I have a decent idea of what below average is, not a term I think applies to the K-x. I don't think the 5d was junk either..actually the basis for a very good camera had Sony the sense to keep the design and platform alive updated to 2010 they'd have a cracking upper entry/mid level body.

Maybe I didn't convey a few things clearly enough. I'm not interested in 10fps I have no use for that. I do not want an EVF type camera so I would not even consider the A33/55 as viable for my needs. I do value being able to set up a camera how I like and make adjustments to a lot of things. Pentax give me that, Sony do not. Even the A55 is lacking in this area. Sometimes you can't win..a few die hards complain I keep moaning and do nothing about it..then when I do buy something that meets my needs I get ripped for buying junk.

There are no piece of junk cameras, I would not even call the entry A mount ones of no use for photographers..they are just badly out of date, over simplified and there are far better choices out there. Let's not knock some of this tweaking..remember A700 users who complained their rear LCD didn't match their shots and was off. Well you can adjust that on Pentax, even budget Pentax at that. It's not perfect I can see weaker points..but as Sony have nothing comparable for my needs, the choice was fairly easy.
So we can talk about how great video AF is or 10fps, reality is neither are of much interest to me.

[Scooterman]

I would say if Barry finds the Pentax ok for him, let it be so, but please Barry no more Pentax are wonderful this is after all a Sony/Minolta forum.
I have used many brands in my time and what suits me may not suit someone else any one had Contax?

[bfitzgerald]

We can talk about Nikon and Canon as well if you like
I think most users are able to live with references to other makers when looking at "what if/should be future models" and discussions. After all we should be adult enough to not throw toys out the pram when people discuss these things.

Which brings me to another point as well (cheesy smile!)
It's absolutely a good idea to look at other makers products, Sony should be doing this as well. Sit around the table..make up a list of what you like or do not about xyz camera..then work out how to make something "better" take the best from other makes and come up with something that is nicely loaded up. This is even more important for Sony as the D7000 is fresh out and likely to be a very strong seller. I believe it would be a mistake to think translucent/high FPS and an EVF will sell it alone.

[bakubo]

I would say if Barry finds the Pentax ok for him, let it be so, but please Barry no more Pentax are wonderful this is after all a Sony/Minolta forum.

I don't run the forum so the decision is not mine, but I don't mind hearing about people's experience with other brands. In fact, I like to hear about them.

[Scooterman]

I would say if Barry finds the Pentax ok for him, let it be so, but please Barry no more Pentax are wonderful this is after all a Sony/Minolta forum.

I don't run the forum so the decision is not mine, but I don't mind hearing about people's experience with other brands. In fact, I like to hear about them.

Just try that on a Canon site or my favourite “Pentax user”
You would have blood splattered all over the place.

[Dusty]

Which brings me to another point as well (cheesy smile!)
It's absolutely a good idea to look at other makers products, Sony should be doing this as well. Sit around the table..make up a list of what you like or do not about xyz camera..then work out how to make something "better" take the best from other makes and come up with something that is nicely loaded up.

This is EXACTLY what Sony should be doing. It's one of the best ways to be #2 in the market, mimic #1, or the best of all competitors. Add innovation to that (in the form of better sensors) and also lower prices, and you'll soon end up the market leader.

Sony's biggest failure is dumbing down the camera without the ability to also go into 'pro mode'. This could be done if you get your software engineers to allow all the features Barry has been talking about (many more agree with him on these issues) and setting the defaults to 'dummy mode'.

Setting upper/lower limits on ISO settings, AE lock toggle, several other items are all firmware functions easily incorporated with very little cost. Since Sony uses the same basic electronics engine in all the DSLRs, costs, once the inital firmware is developed, are minimal.

Making the cameras much more functional for a wide range of customers can only help, not hurt Sony.

Dusty

[bfitzgerald]

I was using a Canon 7d the other day as well...again the sort of model Sony will have to compete against. Very nice overall..though the film 7 has it for the viewfinder size (though it's very decent for it's class)
Never hurts to look over the fence, you might discover something interesting.

In response to Dusty this is my point exactly. Personally I've found the "missing bits" not so much a problem on each one, but overall it leaves a negative feeling when you just can't set thing up how you like. It's great now I can set the ISO limit how I want, navigation is pretty good so is handling (different but easy to pick up) you've tons of options it's really brain overload. But you set many of them and don't need to dive in there again. I mourned the loss of AEL spot toggle, and DMF on Sony bodies lower down. I liked those a lot. All of this stuff is just firmware and easy to do. I don't know why they make things so limited and basic..odd really.

[OneGuyKs]

Take your Pentax buyer justification to Pentax forum. Pentax is at the bottom in market share
behind Olympus (just as Minolta was at the bottom). People know junk when see it. That is Kx. That's why Pentax is at the end of line. Even Olympus beat the poop out of Pentax with m4/3. Kx is not even close to A55 in features and performance.

Why are we even talking about Kx on this forum? Just because you bought it we now have to read your buyer justification on this forum? Take it to Pentax forum.

[bakubo]

Take your Pentax buyer justification to Pentax forum. Pentax is at the bottom in market share
behind Olympus (just as Minolta was at the bottom). People know junk when see it. That is Kx. That's why Pentax is at the end of line. Even Olympus beat the poop out of Pentax with m4/3. Kx is not even close to A55 in features and performance.

Why are we even talking about Kx on this forum? Just because you bought it we now have to read your buyer justification on this forum? Take it to Pentax forum.

Well, as I said, I don't run the forum so the decision is not mine about what we discuss here. The same can most definitely be said for you too. I hate it when self-appointed censors try to control the forum and impose their will. I suspect David can easily decide what he will allow.

[Dr. Harout]

Barry, I wonder why did you opt for the Kx instead of K20. After all the latter should be quite cheap by now. I'm not sure about the prices, I may be wrong.

[bfitzgerald]

Sensor was a big part of it being honest. And some companies don't cripple their lower end models as much, in some ways the K-x has more stuff packed in than the K20d does. This only really applies as I'm into low light. The samsung sensor just does not seem as good, they've gone back to a Sony one for the K-5.

[bakubo]

Sensor was a big part of it being honest. And some companies don't cripple their lower end models as much, in some ways the K-x has more stuff packed in than the K20d does. This only really applies as I'm into low light. The samsung sensor just does not seem as good, they've gone back to a Sony one for the K-5.

Yes, the Samsung sensor used in the K7 was not the best. I wrote of my short experience with a K7 that I bought a few months ago:

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/forum/vie ... =21&t=4026

I was really surprised how nice and how well thought out it was. The many ways to customize settings to the way I wanted was fantastic. The big downsides were the high ISO and the even smaller market share of Pentax which means fewer lenses and less support from 3rd parties.