Jay Maisel loves his Nikon 28-300mm

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bakubo
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Re: Jay Maisel loves his Nikon 28-300mm

Unread post by bakubo »

bfitzgerald wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:55 pm If camera makers want to get people interested, prices are going to have to come down. (once the chip thing is over!).
I suspect cameras like computers, phones, etc. are going to be in shorter supply, harder to get, and maybe more expensive going forward for quite awhile. This short clip is good:

Peter Zeihan: SUPPLY CHAIN, Electronics, LOCKDOWNS, Apple Inc. (Interview Clip)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR4JMwW_U-o

Apple has particular difficulty right now, but all electronics companies are having a rough time.
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Re: Jay Maisel loves his Nikon 28-300mm

Unread post by classiccameras »

I know that Nikon were switching to other chip brands to keep production going and to over come the flooding that nearly wiped them out, They are now using Sony sensors
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Re: Jay Maisel loves his Nikon 28-300mm

Unread post by classiccameras »

Hypothetical question, Staying with CSC, and you are starting out, what brand would you chose, Olympus, Canon M, Panasonic, Nikon Z 50, Fuji
Also what would you prefer APS-C or M/4/3 in a CSC. I guess body cost and lens availability and costs for each brand must be a factor in choice

Having said that, there are some pretty small DSLR's around as well
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Jay Maisel loves his Nikon 28-300mm

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Views are mixed on the chip shortage
https://fudzilla.com/news/54916-we-are- ... p-shortage

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/analy ... p-shortage

I suppose, looking around again most stuff is out of stock. Even simple things are not in stock (flashes etc). Lenses come in and out of stock as do camera bodies. Things might improve a bit later this year, who can say. It does seem there is no quick end is sight - wouldn't expect a great 2023 either. It is impacting the used market too, that's a bad and good thing. I think I got better prices on selling my used gear, but offset by higher prices buying (new and used). I got an alright deal on the D780, considering the price hikes. In normal times I might have expected it to be a bit lower.

APS-C/Crop for me is simple
Canon M - How long is it going to be around?
Olympus - It seems people are moving away from Micro 4/3 a bit? That's my impression
Nikon Z Crop - Are Nikon serious about APS-C? So far I would say not really. ZF-C for fun looks limited system appeal
Sony E - Nothing in stock new, suspended production. Been there done that, ergonomics are horrific
Fuji X - I like some of Fuji's ideas, I dislike their horrible prices! Some of their lenses are way too expensive. Sigma have some reasonable offerings.
Canon EOS- R - Too early to tell, might do well enough over time. Not a fan of Canon's 1.6x crop

For me being a non wildlife shooter or travel shooter, weight doesn't matter that much. I just don't see crop as that exciting. Not as a main system. I've no problems with a crop second body. Comes back to where I was, I did consider buying MILC directly, native.

What I saw was, limited selection of stuff, little on the used market - prices are considerably higher than DSLR building a system from scratch. If I bought any MILC, it would be inevitable I would need to adapt lenses.

If I had bought a Canon R6, I would have been adapting it to EOS lenses 100%. RF glass is not well priced IMO. I passed on Canon as I felt the R6 is overpriced for what's on offer. Everyone has a budget limit at some point. Sub €2000 I would have bought an R6 or a touch higher. Canon have no appeal to me with the RP and R. It is true Nikon's Z is also overpriced (Z6II price hike), however they have more interesting prices used gear (Z6/5)
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Re: Jay Maisel loves his Nikon 28-300mm

Unread post by classiccameras »

Thanks for your input on my question, I'm inclined to agree with you re APS-C Cropped for a MILC, I have a Canon M5 and its nice to hold and use with great Jpegs, I stuck a Canon EFS 15-85 via supplied adapter to try out, Razor sharp pics but boy it weighs a ton, defeats the object of MILC

My local camera dealer, no names but based in Watford thinks Canon will continue the M line for some time as people were switching from Olympus to APS-C MILC for several reasons and Canon don't want to be seen abandoning CSC as the M line has sold quite well. Whether they make more lenses is doubtful as they see the supplied EFS adapter letting them off the hook so to speak, but they really do need to produce a couple more EFM lenses if the line continues. I have seen one or two used Fuji cameras & lenses on the used markets, for me it would have to be the more basic XT20,

I will look at the Nikon MILC, DPreviews like it a lot more so than the Canon and there is a bigger lens range, but like Canon Nikon have gone way over the top on price. I expect the R-10 price will drop over time and deals will be offered, but !! There is a large used market with London Camera Exchange LCE, and Ffordes, I built my old Canon EOS 650D system from LCE used gear.

I expect FF suits your type of photography, and there seems to be a swing in that direction by all of them except Olympus, Olympus as nice cameras as they are with good reviews, they are stuck down a dead end street with no escape route for expansion into bigger sensors/formats,
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Jay Maisel loves his Nikon 28-300mm

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Canon might keep stuff around for a while, EF-M around for a bit. Still I can't see them going anywhere with it. If you buy those EF-M lenses, nowhere to put them. EOS lenses, still are popular as they adapt well and can be used on DSLR and RF and other mounts.
To me Canon seem full on RF and not much interest in anything else.

All the MILC stuff is pricey, we're into 300/400 + for what I'd call "kit lens stuff", plastic mounts, lower grade build. Applies to Canon, Nikon, Sony and just about everyone else, Micro 4/3 has a lot of choice, but much of their premium gear is hardly bargain basement, nor is Fuji.

Say I bought a Canon or Nikon MILC. I want a 100mm ish F2.8 Macro for example. Native MILC Canon sets you back €1500+, Nikon's 105mm is €1200+ :oops:
Sony are a bit better their 90mm is about €950+. Still for me that's kinda silly money for a lens of that type. I paid under €400 for a new Sigma 105mm F2.8, optics are excellent superb. I don't care if the new lenses are a bit better, this is more than good enough - I will never see the difference. There is a lack of choice, lack of affordable choices with mirrorless. It's far too expensive to build a native mirrorless system for most normal people. That's the rub really, however you want to break it down. I skipped the Z6II because I felt it was too costly with the adapter v the DSLR I got. A7III is still expensive for a 2018 camera, hardly any price drop since new.

Canon's RF 70-200mm F4, £1700+ new. That is pure insanity at any level for an F4 lens. There are many examples from all the makers, of what I call "comical pricing". Ditto Nikon's Z 50mm F1.8, maybe it is the best 50mm ever made, I can only pay so much for a 50mm F1.8 lens. It's no wonder people are being more savvy, and with recent events it's likely they will be more careful with their reduced incomes. Tough times ahead! When things improve in a few years, there will be some mind blowing deals around for SLR gear.
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Re: Jay Maisel loves his Nikon 28-300mm

Unread post by classiccameras »

They are all alienating photographers into not making expensive purchases any more, Its a shrinking market whatever you use, and price hikes will not rescue them. The M series has sold well globally and I doubt Canon will abandon a concept that has and still does quite well, despite the lens choice,

I am keeping my old A58 and a couple of Minolta lenses,

Many EOS EFS users bought into small as their lenses will adapt to M mount. I have to say that the Canon M6 is shear robbery and that needs trimming down to a saleable price. I'm still looking at M/4/3 simply because there is a vast choice of bodies and lenses and a decent used market including 3rd party

Nikon are being just as stupid with their Z range.
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Re: Jay Maisel loves his Nikon 28-300mm

Unread post by classiccameras »

Just an addition to my last post, I've often pondered, should I forget 'small' and go back to normal, normal being DSLR, or is small going to be the new normal. My bridge camera comes into the equation being DSLR size. However, although my A58 is a keeper for nostalgia, it would be another make not Sony and probably used.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Jay Maisel loves his Nikon 28-300mm

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I'll just keep building up a system on what I have, there are some nice enough deals around. Over time things will improve. I expect more mirrorless stuff will turn up, ever higher prices (Z6III etc). Again it's easy for me to ignore all this and just replace my sold A mount gear with F mount. A7IV is maybe the new "normal" in price, if that's the plan from makers (and it seems to be), thanks but no thanks.

I have 0 regrets not buying a mirrorless native system. Far too expensive, nasty focus by wire on most lenses, sharp isn't enough I need "nice looking" pleasing images. So the marketing can fire away all it wants. I might look at something MILC later on, right now prices are not good enough to tempt me on bodies. We have to face reality at least with Canon, they are doing "absolutely nothing" on EF-M and EOS. They might drag them out for a bit, unless I see something arrive, have to assume we're going to have "A Mount" scenario, let the inventory bleed out over time. I don't think Canon will do a Sony and try to ghost their users though.
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Re: Jay Maisel loves his Nikon 28-300mm

Unread post by classiccameras »

A good old DSLR from any of the makers is a tried and tested system and is still worth a serious look as an alternative to mirrorless. People like Canikon are hoping mirrorless will be the new norm, they have a long way to go to convince me of that, when a mirrorless replaces a DSLR of similar spec, price and image quality then they might get my attention. Canon and Nikon have a huge client base globally and neither in my view will do the dirty on those loyal users. An M series camera for a Canon DSLR user might be a useful back up but not a replacement. I think most DSLR's will give you very pleasing images, well, they have had long enough to develop them.
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