Looking back was some times better

Specifically for the discussion of the A-mount DSLR range
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Looking back was some times better

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

I have some fun too. Even though I was never an EVF super fan or SLT fan. I was quite against SLT in many ways, it robbed light off the sensor, and at the time it was far too premature. I got used to it, but mostly putting up with it, v liking it. I was never happy with not having an OVF choice. And Sony took that choice away from users. Reality time is, well it will take quite some time to re-build a new system. Not what I wanted at all, but that was down to Sony - going back on their word.

I'm still quite shocked long time users like Gary/David put up with Sony's abandonment of Minolta users, very strange to see. With Sony I just call it as I see it, completely unacceptable way to treat your customers. It's a disaster for long term Minolta/Sony A users, no other way of putting it.

I also learnt that you can acquire things you don''t really need, at nearly 20 lenses with most of them gathering dust. Silly. Far better to have less, but items that are useful to you. It will take me time to rebuild a new system, but I will stick with it. With Canikon I have more choices than Sony anyway. I can also get OVF products a plenty, not Sony's ancient tech stuff ala A700/A900 they quit OVF very quickly. As more and more people dump their SLR gear, this makes for a great bargain for used shoppers.

Pentax have their K3-III on sale for €1699 down from €2000. Maybe it's a great camera, I have not used one. I'd just rather put 2K into a full frame body then a Pentax. Perhaps Pentax will stick around, it's not impossible. They have so little used gear though, even a die hard OVF fan would probably think twice before buying Pentax. I tried them once, never again. Yes I might jump into another dead end system, still I'm just looking for the tools I like to use, with Minolta I found that, but Sony I was kidding myself on that one - I was never really comfortable with them, or their ideas.

You should post some pics ala RAF time, be curious to see.
classiccameras
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Re: Looking back was some times better

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Sony have put their cards on the table hoping ex A mount users will jump to E mount, I guess they think Brand loyalty has some swing. Me I never had brand loyalty except in the old 35 mm days. A mount will dwindle to a has-been with a few dedicated users, My local camera store is already seeing an increase of people coming in to part exchange their A Mount kit for another brand. Big sellers seem to be M/4/3. and the smaller Canon and Nikon, but the prices of these such as the Canon M5 is outrageous and a poor lens offering.

Sony blindly put faith in the SLT tec but they must have seen it was not that popular as compared to Canikon or M/4/3. Also most reviews of the SLT cameras were never glowing.

Canikon has more experience in Full frame than any other brand and if it was me that is the direction I would take. I'm staying with APS-C cropped only because I'm used to the format and FF lenses would be too expensive. I know 2 wedding photographers, both use FF Canon and Nikon, and they said its the best format for their work, also FF Nikon is still the preferred camera for studio work.

Trouble is the whole industry is suffering because of the Smart Phone/mobile.
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bakubo
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Re: Looking back was some times better

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I don't pay attention to DSLR stuff anymore, but today I happened to see a very nice used Canon 5D III for 85,500 yen - US$657 and a Nikon D750 for 94,500 yen - US$727 and those seem like very good prices. Are they typical these days? Should be easy to build a nice DSLR kit right now.
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Re: Looking back was some times better

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What are you using these days ?
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bakubo
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Re: Looking back was some times better

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bfitzgerald
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Re: Looking back was some times better

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classiccameras wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 1:16 pm Sony have put their cards on the table hoping ex A mount users will jump to E mount, I guess they think Brand loyalty has some swing. Me I never had brand loyalty except in the old 35 mm days. A mount will dwindle to a has-been with a few dedicated users, My local camera store is already seeing an increase of people coming in to part exchange their A Mount kit for another brand. Big sellers seem to be M/4/3. and the smaller Canon and Nikon, but the prices of these such as the Canon M5 is outrageous and a poor lens offering.

Sony blindly put faith in the SLT tec but they must have seen it was not that popular as compared to Canikon or M/4/3. Also most reviews of the SLT cameras were never glowing.

Canikon has more experience in Full frame than any other brand and if it was me that is the direction I would take. I'm staying with APS-C cropped only because I'm used to the format and FF lenses would be too expensive. I know 2 wedding photographers, both use FF Canon and Nikon, and they said its the best format for their work, also FF Nikon is still the preferred camera for studio work.

Trouble is the whole industry is suffering because of the Smart Phone/mobile.

No doubt some might stick with Sony, though if you're stuck with the LA-EA4 adapter, you'll find it quite limited. Workable, but back in ye time warp for small AF point coverage. The new adapter and full frame body = a 3 grand investment, just to get screw drive lenses working for stills. Nothing works AF for video (even worse than the older adapter). I don't see much incentive. For 3 grand I can buy a nice FF body and a bunch of lenses, and I'm half into a new system.

I'd love to ride it out, continue to use the Minolta gems I've picked up. But I keep having this bad taste, which is called Sony dumping on their long time customers. They have plenty of time to plan this, to provide better adapters, to be much more transparent with their users. Instead they went back on their word big time:
https://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/l ... eper-95702

If you do that, people will call you out. In short I don't trust Sony, nothing they say holds water. It costs nothing to release a press statement - yet they won't even do that. Little loyalty to their original customers, and again deliberate crippling/limiting of their adapters/bodies functionality.
A99II's still fetch big prices. First one has 20K fairly good used but some marks, the other one is as new 42 shots!
Screenshot 2022-05-02 233352.jpg
Screenshot 2022-05-02 233352.jpg (59.26 KiB) Viewed 712 times
Screenshot 2022-05-02 233517.jpg
Screenshot 2022-05-02 233517.jpg (72.07 KiB) Viewed 712 times
Let's be honest the camera was too expensive at launch anyway, at £2999/€3500. And it didn't drop much, in fact the last batches Sony jacked up the prices on just about everything A Mount, accessories and lenses too, even the older A77ii got a nice price hike. A last desperate cash grab from their loyal user base. A mount was pretty much defunct from 2015 if not before then.
classiccameras
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Re: Looking back was some times better

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There is no getting away from it, Sony dumped on A mount users hoping dyed in the wool Sony fans will move to E mount.
I agree re the Minolta lenses, and for me that's the biggest heart ache to abandon.

But once your dumped on its time to jump ship. I guess you could keep back one Sony camera for posterity as I have with the A-58, but having 2 feet in different camps system wise is not always wise. In Sony's favour for me at least, cropped A mount cameras were easy to use and easy to set up, that's more than I can say about Pentax. I was never really that impressed with Sony colours as compared to Olympus and Canon, not to mention Fuji.

Also how important is size and weight, the A99 looks like a bulky brute, I down sized to the Canon M5, many people are doing the same with M/4/3. I don't think I would invest in a system that's on its way out, no matter how cheap. My Panasonic bridge FZ 330 never lets me down, its probably not your cup of tea for the type of work you do, I only use it for stills.

I doubt Sony will invest any more into A mount or adaptors, Their road map is E mount and believe it or not their Bridge cameras are not doing bad.
Never understood why Sony high end compacts were introduced, I guess a few people got interested but most not due to price probably preferring to use Smart Phone/Mobiles.

Sony had probably got their future product line up well set up for introduction way back and they were not letting on, but they really did not do this transition very well at all. Their lack of communication left a lot to be desired.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Looking back was some times better

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I don't have any doubts that Sony planned this some time ago. If they had stuck to their word, we would have seen an A77III after the A99II. That high end A99II was, a very wrong signal to some that A Mount would carry one - when of course it didn't. The only good news is those who bought that camera, can at least get a good bit back selling it used. Anyone else who bought into the G or Zeiss lenses, then Sony just cost you a whole lot of lost money if you sell up.

Not sure I have a lot of confidence Sony will keep making those adapters, can anyone feel secure that 5-10 years down the line they still have compatibility or they are still being made? Sony would rather people sell up their A Mount gear, and re-buy native E mount stuff. Hence the limited support - don't want to make it too good do they! I've no problems with bridge type cameras, or other formats. It's down to people to work out what works best for them. Everyone is different. I still quite like the A99, but it was not IMO £2500/€3000 camera, or worth that asking price. It's quite a good used deal for those users who are left. There are too many annoyances with Sony. Why can't I set the camera so it wont fire the shutter if I have no card in it? Yet I can on the Dynax 5D! Why can't I specify the high ISO limit for flash shots? Or put my own copyright/details into the camera. Even in 2022 you can't develop a raw file to jpeg in any Sony camera, even the massively expensive A1. The company is just plain weird/out of touch IMO, and has been for a long time. What was the point of developing SLT? Only to abandon the mount later on. They might as well have stuck with OVF's and developed good on sensor live view.

My next camera is an OVF camera, with excellent live view. It's on it's way right now!
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Looking back was some times better

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Another reason I believe it was "planned obsolescence" is the lack of spare parts. We've seen horror stories where people who bought a G2 Lens say 70-400mm F2.8 or 70-200mm, needed an AF motor...can't get them. Or very unlikely to find them. I was looking for lens hoods last year, impossible to find even on common lenses, except used most. There is the odd one out there new, but rare to find. I'm sure they can repair A99II's right now, but for how long? It's just another sign of the long wind down for A Mount - the decision was taken years ago IMO, just a shame Sony didn't feel the need to let their customers know. Sorry to say I don't have the same warm fuzzy feelings that some of the Dyxum crowd do about Sony - but then some of those were pre-paid influencers that Sony got their claws into marketing wise.
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Re: Looking back was some times better

Unread post by classiccameras »

I have bought several lens hoods from JJC in the past, they are well made ( in China ) and good price, I refuse to pay Canon nearly £40 for a lens hood.
Its the 'small' lighter systems that they are all moving to, Sony being no exception. The masters of small are the M/4/3, cameras, all have decent lens ranges both budget and high end.

However M/4/3 is not to every ones liking with the small format but they do have a good fan base. Fuji and Kodak signed up to the 4/3 concept along with Panasonic and Olympus, but Fuji dropped out and Kodak, well we know the history there. Early Olympus cameras had CCD sensors made my Kodak. However I digress,

Most photographers get attached to a camera brand and end up in most cases loyal to that brand, but I'm afraid Sony has destroyed that loyal fan base.
I should imagine decision time is approaching
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Looking back was some times better

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BTW we now have some angst with APS-C E mount users pondering their own fate. A very comical post from one person
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4646352

"Sony tend to be upfront about products and don't tend to leave customers in the lurch"
Wow that's about as far from reality as it gets!

Here's another one from a couple of years ago. I guess Sony E users can have a taste of the FUD too!
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64095346
Last edited by bfitzgerald on Wed May 11, 2022 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Looking back was some times better

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The writing was on the wall even then. What Pro is going to buy into Sony when you have the 2 market leaders Canon & Nikon in APS-C & FF
I have one foot in the Canon camp as I have a 650D and M5, and will jump ship completely soon, My only connection now with Sony is my old A58 and a couple of Minolta lenses which will stay in storage, no one wants them.

I can't see myself shifting to FF mainly because of cost. But I'm very happy with both Canon's. My Panasonic Bridge stays, its been so darn useful on many different subjects, Small sensor, but the Leica constant F2.8 makes up some of the pit falls with small sensors.

It seems to me that Sony was always more interested in selling Televisions and home entertainments systems.

What positive things can I say about Sony over the years I've used them, For me the menu was easy to navigate, read, and set up, button placement, was better than some other cameras, but the bonus was being able to use Konica/Minolta lenses and IBS on whatever you screwed on the front. Some features you only ever saw on more expensive opposition


I think SLT had a part to play including some negative reviews on SLT and too aggressive noise suppression with no user control saw Sony's APS-C A mounts eventual demise. Poorly thought out marketing didn't help, but shrinking cameras was also a big part such as E mount just to keep up with the trend, I was never a big fan of Sony colours especially comparing them to Olympus and Canon. but I can't level that on Sony as its a personal thing

So it's all your eggs in one basket for Sony with E mount, but its not doing terribly well, interest is waning
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Looking back was some times better

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Much will depend on prices. If this new "R7" is expensive ie well over 2 grand, then bar dedicated wildlife shooters might bite, few others will. The other model, single slot I assume is a more affordable APS-C, how much more affordable we don't know. At 2 grand prices or near there, I have 0 interest in APS-C above 1300/1400 €. And I don't have a lot just sub €1000, I start to think nice used FF body for that or less.

For Nikon I don't know what their APS-C plan is, I suspect it's more a side show. With Canon, their problem is too many mounts, EOS, RF, and EF-M
It does seem to make sense to, dare I coin the Sony marketing..."one mount". Thing is though, EF-M has sold quite well, in many areas. It does seem odd to end of life something that is doing well. Sadly for us, we were on the wrong side of Sony's "one mount" plan.

Two things stick out with Sony A, a lack of development of lenses - very obvious ones that were never made for full frame and APS-C. They also used many Minolta designs, didn't bother to update them etc etc. Some of those oldies were quite good, some less so. Most were screw drive, and whilst they kept compatibility with A mount bodies, they fragmented/broke it with the adapters/E mount. That is why I and many others have moved away from Sony. Unlike other makers, who did update their lenses. SLT was hit and miss, some say it did well enough, others just were not happy about it. I see the pros and cons, but honestly think it was a pointless move from Sony.

https://www.canonwatch.com/the-canon-eo ... d-eos-90d/
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