Sony looks to change the world of DSLRs - Masashi 'Tiger' Im

[UrsaMajor]

Previsualisation don't need EVF or OVF, just need creativity and imagination. If you wanna go classic, get a view camera and shoot like AA

Shoot like Alcoholics Anonymous?

With an evil smile,
- Tom -

[pakodominguez]

Previsualisation don't need EVF or OVF, just need creativity and imagination. If you wanna go classic, get a view camera and shoot like AA

Shoot like Alcoholics Anonymous?

With an evil smile,
- Tom -

ah!
Ansel Adams

[bfitzgerald]

Pre-visualisation is a personal thing to me an EVF does not help on this one.
The sales of SLT models are probably pretty good but that's for 1 reason, previously Sony's offerings have been lack lustre in this segment and lacked punch, secondly no matter what they do SLT or DSLR the top 2 makers will continue to dominate the market.

At segments above the A55 it is much more a gamble as to if users are willing to accept electronic viewfinders they are far more discerning than your average joe. Despite the DK "flying off the shelves" their sales are a drop in the ocean compared to the top two. Yes both makers will offer EVF models in the near future (they will be less quick to dump OVF's than Sony though) situation will be exactly the same as now..Sony will be no. 3 and not a sniff of that elusive 2 spot. Think of it as having 10 chairs and simply re-arranging them in a different order ultimately it makes no difference to the result

DK is right in that many users won't care OVF or EVF but they are shown 3 cameras Canon, Nikon and maybe (not always) a Sony. Most will buy Canon, then Nikon and then Sony will get a shout with some. SLT isn't selling at EOS 500/550d levels or D3100 either nowhere near it.

[Greg Beetham]

It doesn't come down to a question of EVF vs OVF on it's own either really, although some will not want to entertain an EVF in a 7 series for sure, especially if it's cluttered up with micky mouse overlays. 7 series cams are not all bought for/by part time enthusiasts, weekend warriors etc. some want to use them on the front line earning a living. I don't know how good the duration is going to be yet for the new electronic everything 7 but the last thing you would want is for the battery to run out at a crucial moment in some event or during a game you're covering. So Sony would need to improve the longevity of the 'A77' over that in the A55, maybe with a battery grip it might be ok, we'll see.
Greg

ps. I wonder if they will solve the multiple shutter actions needed to take a single frame? That needs fixing too, halving your shutter life doesn't appeal to me much.

[Scooterman]

I met a guy while out yesterday, he was using Sony, a Sony A-580 with a large Sigma prime 300mm f2.8 and I asked him as you do how he found the combination, “superb” was his answer and after a short chat he told me that at his camera club Gloucester (UK) no one was using Sony kit 12months ago now 7 members are + him are sony users.
So Sony must be doing something right, all those converts.
Richard

[bfitzgerald]

Scooterman by far the most common Sony I have seen around DSLR wise is the A200 no doubt due to it's rock bottom low price at the time which I think was an all time low of just under £250 when it was on the market. I would imagine this probably was one of the best selling DSLR's from Sony at least in Europe I've seen quite a few around in the last few years.

A few A700's nobody with A900's. I'm sure they will do well enough with these models the SLT ones but it remains to be seen how much impact they have this year. Regarding established pros etc I'm still not seeing any impact from Sony there of course they will bag a few but nothing near to what they would like.

One thing is for sure Sony will have to nail any overheating issues, much better battery life and ghosting etc on the A77 as well as a mind blowing spec for it to have impact in the market a fast fps is given but that alone won't ensure it's a hit.

Greg's half shutter life point is also a tad worrying.

[Scooterman]

Scooterman by far the most common Sony I have seen around DSLR wise is the A200 no doubt due to it's rock bottom low price at the time which I think was an all time low of just under £250 when it was on the market. I would imagine this probably was one of the best selling DSLR's from Sony at least in Europe I've seen quite a few around in the last few years.

A few A700's nobody with A900's. I'm sure they will do well enough with these models the SLT ones but it remains to be seen how much impact they have this year. Regarding established pros etc I'm still not seeing any impact from Sony there of course they will bag a few but nothing near to what they would like.

One thing is for sure Sony will have to nail any overheating issues, much better battery life and ghosting etc on the A77 as well as a mind blowing spec for it to have impact in the market a fast fps is given but that alone won't ensure it's a hit.

Greg's half shutter life point is also a tad worrying.

There you go again Barry assuming things, I did ask him about what they were using at the club and he told me that most of them were “Full frame” shooters and were using 850’s and 900’s he likes doing wildlife as I do and the 580 suited him, he like me also has the 550.
I also saw many doing video work I did notice what they were mainly using and that was Pro Sony gear, one lot were doing a wildlife programme all Sony gear.
As for the overheating problem? Pentax K-7’s overheated and it showed with lines on the images and “Hot Pixels” they did a firm ware update to limit the time shooting, Sony had the limiter in already and stated that it was limited time, anyway IF? I wanted to do video I would buy a video camera, the DSLR should really only be used for those moments when a short video is required.

Richard

[Greg Beetham]

Yep Europe and the UK is good for Sony, Russia as well apparently, but I'm not sure what models sold the most or what the disperson was. I don't know how good Oz is, I guess they do sell some, but probaly many more are bought online from outside than here in a camera shop. Sony is peculiar with the US market, they give the impression they aren't all that bothered with it. Apparently the SLT's are going ok in Japan.
Greg

ps. If Sony don't see themselves as an alternative to the other two, where does that leave us? I'm sure Pentax regard themselves as a bona fide alternative to Nikon or Canon, so so should Sony.

[Scooterman]

Another thing I nearly missed Barry, camera failers, yes cameras do have faults all makes do, here in the UK though, I can’t comment for other places, servicing is done “In house” and you can contact and speak to them the others I know of Olympus mainly done in Portugal Canon in many parts of the UK by contract also Pentax is contract Samsung DSLRs now if faulty, Who knows?
Anyway I have had dealings with the service department of Sony Bridgend and have had fairly prompt also super service.

[bfitzgerald]

Richard neither you nor I will be able to give any accurate indication of how many Sony users there are I simply convey my own findings on a very limited level out and about..and yourself likewise. The only thing I do bet on is that Canon and Nikon are by far the 2 biggest camera makers with the most users and between then count for the overwhelming majority of users for DSLR's.

The other point to make is the fact Sony are moving to SLT does not mean it's done "because it's better for the end user" in the same way the removal of OVF's from most compacts was purely a cost saving measure. I smell a long term cost reduction for Sony and other makers by removing OVF's and mirrors (eventually) it would not be wise to suggest it will necessarily be in the long term interests of users. The words "better" and EVF or even OVF don't really convince it's purely a personal choice.

I'd like to see Sony stop worrying about trying to be the top dog and put a lot more into actual products and improvements. It was IMO a very foolish thing for Sony to say they want to be no. 2 in the same way Samsung were ill advised to suggest they want xyz % of the ILC market. Neither are likely to get there.

[Lonnie Utah]

The other point to make is the fact Sony are moving to SLT does not mean it's done "because it's better for the end user" in the same way the removal of OVF's from most compacts was purely a cost saving measure. I smell a long term cost reduction for Sony and other makers by removing OVF's and mirrors (eventually) it would not be wise to suggest it will necessarily be in the long term interests of users. The words "better" and EVF or even OVF don't really convince it's purely a personal choice.

I'd like to see Sony stop worrying about trying to be the top dog and put a lot more into actual products and improvements. It was IMO a very foolish thing for Sony to say they want to be no. 2 in the same way Samsung were ill advised to suggest they want xyz % of the ILC market. Neither are likely to get there.

Can you not see the irony in those two conflicting statements?

[Birma]

I'd like to see Sony stop worrying about trying to be the top dog and put a lot more into actual products and improvements.

Wow Barry, I realise that the products that Sony brought out in 2010 didn't tickle your fancy, but I think they must have put a lot in to bringing out the Nex, SLT, "easy use" lenses, plus the raft of other stuff. I would also expect one to lead to the other, i.e. bring out great products, and you improve your market share.

One group of buyers that hasn't been covered yet are those who buy for the re-sellers, i.e. shops etc. I realise that this tends to be the lower end models, but the UK high street stores seem to have been keen on the latest Sony stuff (e.g. PC World, John Lewis etc.).

The mid-end camera body is an interesting area. With so many people who make their living from photography (on this forum alone) using Nex and SLT, might Sony think that they don't need a A700 replacement (or at least an infrequent replacement)?

I saw on Camera Price Buster yesterday that the Nex 5 twin lens kit can be had for £449! That is a lot of photopgrahic bang for your buck.

[Greg Beetham]

When I say that Europe and the UK, Russia is good for Sony, obviously I'm not suggesting that the number of units sold come anywhere near what Canon and Nikon sell but from what I understand there is a lot less price gouging than in the US.
Greg
ps. I brought that up before Birma, about what sensible camera co. could possibly leave the 7 slot vacant for so long, leaving the opposition a free run. The suggestion was that Sony don't see themselves as a credible alternative to the other big two so they are going off into different territory. I have doubts that Sony has discovered a whole lot of new customers that no one new existed before with their SLT's, I think mainly they would be second camera buyers, even quite a few that have other systems, along with some new camera buyers of course. That says a lot for the SLT concept, it has real advantages, enough to attract alternate system users, but there are some drawbacks....there are some areas where the OVF DSLR is still superior.

[bfitzgerald]

Can you not see the irony in those two conflicting statements?

Not really no I see SLT as a vehicle for cost reduction not user improvement.
In response to Birma yeah Sony spend a load of cash on stuff in the last 12 months yet was still not able to provide an APS-C DSLR/SLT which could actually display the ISO in the VF full time, nor provide any degree of user customisation, nor allow Auto ISO limits to be set, and you know the story I could go on and on and on...lol

It's always the simple simon stuff that gets Sony they can herald a new generation of technology, I welcome the cheaper lenses (shame about the bad SAM motors and poor build optics look good though) but they can't do the bread and butter basics..just beyond their comprehension.

Back on topic Sony are doing SLT to "save cash $$ ££" no other reason at all. It's got absolutely nothing to do with "making photography better"

You can make an argument or counter argument for every possible reason someone might like SLT. Smaller bodies some don't like small, less weight..not enough battery power, WYSIWYG does not work for flash, low light and many don't need it, EVF good for video..don't shoot video much etc etc

[Scooterman]

Richard neither you nor I will be able to give any accurate indication of how many Sony users there are I simply convey my own findings on a very limited level out and about..and yourself likewise. The only thing I do bet on is that Canon and Nikon are by far the 2 biggest camera makers with the most users and between then count for the overwhelming majority of users for DSLR's.

The other point to make is the fact Sony are moving to SLT does not mean it's done "because it's better for the end user" in the same way the removal of OVF's from most compacts was purely a cost saving measure. I smell a long term cost reduction for Sony and other makers by removing OVF's and mirrors (eventually) it would not be wise to suggest it will necessarily be in the long term interests of users. The words "better" and EVF or even OVF don't really convince it's purely a personal choice.

I'd like to see Sony stop worrying about trying to be the top dog and put a lot more into actual products and improvements. It was IMO a very foolish thing for Sony to say they want to be no. 2 in the same way Samsung were ill advised to suggest they want xyz % of the ILC market. Neither are likely to get there.

Lets put it this way Barry You don’t like progress, if it does not suit you, it may suit many others and why Sony think that it is worth it.
Analogue TV and now digital, that is progress, HD TV even more progress and being bought out 3 D TV or would you rather watch a set like I did when I was young 9inch Black and White that took 5 minutes to warm up.
So I say get a life and go and complain about something else.
I don’t want a NEX myself but if sales are anything to go by many do, also the A-55 a little small for my hands yet again many like it.
I liked the image quality and the functionality of the Canon 1Dmk2n but yet again far too heavy for me to use all-day.
The A-550 and the A-580 suit me for what I do, obviously the Pentax suits you so why don’t you be clever and go and take some nice shots with it.
Richard