Rumours

[peterottaway]

Minolta / Sony users are so much like the Apple Mac faithful when two or more are gathered together. I am a member of both camps of many years standing.

When it comes to discussing the near mythical A800 and the A700i if you are following the old Minolta protocols, I think that you need to think about the complex business relationship that exists between Sony and Nikon.

That Nikon does rely on Sony for many critical parts. And for what I assume is a mutually profitable relationship to continue between actual competitors is always going to be a edgy situation. Sony has no obligation to save Nikon from itself should it stuff up badly, but predatory actions that might bring a better quarterly number for Sony could end up damaging the whole market.

Given that Nikon has had the 12 sensor for about a year and that Sony now has the 900 body in production,the A800 has certainly become a much discussed subject especially as it would allow Sony to establish a new price point.

As for an improved A700 I would think that a Product Improved version of the 14 sensor would be less costly in terms of hardware and software. Myself I have no interest in Live View or Video as doing these must add to development complexity and cost. When you go into production if you are going to add L V and V either this is going to cost more or you have to trim costs.

I am not a luddite but seriously how many camera sales for models such as the 700/800/900 ? Sony could even make it an advertising feature along the lines we spend your money on what matters not the 15 different colours and the chrome trim.

Or as the glorious Steve Jobs has been known to say / yell /scream " THINK DIFFERENT "



How many sales of cameras in the 700/800/900 price range do you lose by not including these features ? As an advertising platform something like " Sony we do cameras seriously well ".

[henniebez]

I am with you on that one! Sony for serious! For that we need lenses! All though for me as a student who cant afford it, just to dream about it! Cause todays dreams, are tomorrows reality!

Hennie

[Javelin]

No you Didn't... you did not just slide that in there without anyone noticing !

Yeah, I have one..

A well known sony sceptic may well have bought a sony DSLR, after all these years

[AJ Gressette]

Not exactly a rumor, but I actually saw a bid on Ebay for Minolta STF on Ebay with the Nikkor mount. It was within the last few months?

[peterottaway]

I'm as much of a rumour junkie as anyone. And given that it is now two months since Photokina and PMA 09 isn't till the beginning of March 2009, I would have thought that some " unofficial pre-announcements " might be taking place.

Given the economic climate not just Sony, Nikon and Canon but most consumer driven companies must be feeling by now a lot of pain.Boxes just aren't moving off dealers shelves and dealers are finding it difficult to get bank credit.

OK, companies just can't decide to release on 15 December a model planned for 15 April next year. And some discounts are being offered, but I thought that the major brands would be making attempts to keep the BRAND before the buying public.

[David Kilpatrick]

Well, Nikon intends to announce something on Dec 1 which may be available before Christmas. We don't yet know what but 24 megapixel full frame is the obvious direction.

David

[peterottaway]

I guess what I needed to say is that in times like these the companies need to keep talking and communicating with the buying public and their dealers.

On Nikon making an announcement, these seems to have been two different schools of speculators some weeks back. The first was how long would it be before the Sony 24 would appear in a Nikon camera, the other being that Nikon was about to introduce a larger than 35mm sensor camera ( too many drinkies at Oktoberfest ? ).

I might be setting myself up, but given that the total world market for medium format has been said to be about 30,000 units a year !!

[TallPaul]

I heard a rumour there is going to be a canon 5D Mk2 next year?

I had not heard the Nikon rumour, that's interesting, and I would agree that 24MP D3 or something like that is the obvious choice. I can't see a 24MP D700 as the market would not fit against 5D Mk2 and A900, but then my perception of the market and that of the manufacturer's has never really aligned

[pakodominguez]

I heard a rumour there is going to be a canon 5D Mk2 next year?

Adorama's waiting list for that camera hit 4000 orders in the begining of this week: yes, most people will have that camera in January or even latter. Right now, Canon is clearing their stock of 5Ds for $1999.
In other hand, the D700 is on sale too for $2700 (probably less at the store), and I bet that, it that Nikon FF 24 MP is announced next week, the D700 price will drop even more in order to sell the nu camera at a competitive price.

Regards

[peterottaway]

The MacNN site is carrying 3 photos of what is purported to be the Nikon D-3x. The info came from Nikon Rumors.

No tech spec's just a vague sentence about rumours of it supposedly having a sensor of between 21 and 25 megapixels to compete against Canon. Makes a statement that the new sensor is going to produce the same sort of results as the D-3 does !

We have already got to 25 haven't we ? Another group in Sony denial ?

Please note I am in no way denigrating Nikon's engineering staff. What they produced on the D-3 with a 12MP FF and a 14/16 bit chip is extremely good. I expect technically what they can produce will be better than Sony with a 12 bit chip. But whether that in practice means more than bragging rights I am more dubious about.

[A1000]

Future Still Cameras

will have quality video function. Everything will be different. They will be constantly on and when the shutter is pressed a burst of images will be recorded from before to after the shutter is pressed. Another mode will allow constant video recording at the same time. Sony will have the best cameras then, Nikon will move to #3 spot in the market share.

Sony have quickly trippled its market share - just look at the figures for the last year or two and check todays's figures


Sony's unfortunate past

Sony was mismanaged after its founder suffered a stroke. At one time it could become the foremost DSLR maker; it did not. The new CEO is rejuvenating the Sony spirit.


Sony is working on the following products. The code names are different, but I am told that the following will likely be the actual model numbers. Don't ask me for any details.

- A50 APS camera without viewfinder
- A500 APS camera with live view and video function
- A800 FF Camera
- A1000 FF camera
- new lenses - high resolution telephoto, etc.
- 2 new camera systems - lenses, where the mirror stays locked up and the new lenses are closer to the CMOS. This will be used in high end FF cameras which will rival MF resolution and in smaller inexpensive system - these will use APS sized sensors - and will be without mirror boxes, and will compete with Panasonic G1; new lenses are being developed; the older ones will too be useable. The cameras will accomodate both type of lenses - the ones with short distance between the sensor and the lens, and the older lens design, however not all older lenses will be usable - will not have all the functions, just like they don't have them now.
- back iluminated sensors
- video-still conbimation cameras, which will be superior to what the competition can do, just as their implementation of live view is superior.

They are planning to to become No.1 DSLR maker. When Sony started, after WW2, they were nothing more than garage-type operation that was started by couple of engineers. They made the first Japanese transistor radio. They made their own transistors. They and the Czechs that time developed the world's first transistor radios, but the Sony one was scrapped for inferior plastic parts and the Czech one because the Communists saw future in miniature electron tubes. The world's first transistor radio then became US made Regency - inferior and unreliable. Sony made their first one a year later in 1955. It was highly reliable. The Czechs did so in 1958 - the first one in the Soviet block. Breznev wanted the Russians to make theirs first in the Eastern block, but they were not able to. They could not make it working. Sony old transistor radios sell for up to thousands of dollars - among collectors, next ones in line are old Toshibas. Matsushita radios sell for some 10x less.

Sony had a bad decade, but things are turning around.

[alphaomega]

A1000

I think you gave us most of this information (above) in the thread entitled A900 vs. DX3, Canon FF, Red, Panasonic, etc., which you originated and it was viewed by over 400 members.

[David Kilpatrick]

I don't know who A1000 is but I have been given some information which matches this from a fairly reputable if biased source - specifically, the mirrorless DSLR which will also achieve frame rates higher than anything seen in the same bracket before. We will just have to wait and see.

David

[A1000]

The new high speed DSLR will use one CMOS, not 3 sensors, just like the top Sony 1/4 million dollar camcorder F35 is using one 12 MP CCD. The less expensive Sony camcorders use 3 sensors. New Sony camcorder will have 4x more pixels recorded than F35. It is already being tested in japan.

When Sony introduced their revolutionary FX1 and Z1 cameras, they did withheld the chips from Canon for quite some time. Then they provided them with their complete chipset, MPEG processing chips and everything. The new Canons had the same resolution in progressive mode as the older Sonys.

There is a very pro-Canon, anti-Sony forum, the biggest video forum on the net, which kept on claiming that the Canon has full resolution in the progressive mode, while the Sony does not, etc. Sony later on made special CCD chips for Canon, but withheld from them fully their ClearVid CMOS chips used in FX7. Later on they combined their ClearVid CMOS technology with EXMOR and they now totally dominate the prosumer and pro field. Not that they did not dominate it before, but now even if you look at the above mentioned forum, its HD section is more or less Sony's, and it does not include Sony higher end products, like HDCAM and HDCAM SR.

Sony decided now to sell some CMOS chips to JVC. When was Matsushita selling JVC, Sony attemted to buy it secretely via the same company that they bought together portion of MGM. Matsushita saw through it and sold JVC to Kenwood instead. Sony now started selling some of their advanced CMOS to JVC, but only the older designs.

As for the 60 FPS chips, these are used in two Casio cameras.

Sony is protecting some of their markets and products, where it dominates, so it does not develop competing products for these areas first. That includes the 60 FPS CMOS cameras, DSLR's with high quality HD video function, etc., but it has the power to dominate these fields. They showed it over and over again in the camcorder business. They did not develop new technology to replace their entrenched Betacam (not Beta) broadcast market. Matsushita tried to get into the business with their M2 system. Sony counteracted with a better Betacam and Matsushita-Panasonic had one big fiasco, as their M2 system was highly inferior.

JVC developed the first consumer-prosumer HD camcorder. Within about one and a half year Sony developed superior FX1 and Z1 cameras, that outsold the JVC something like 100:1. Now Red is trying to get on Sony turf. We see the same pattern. Sony quickly reacted with their EX1 camera, which is breaking all sales records. Watch them getting serious 1080p functions on their future DSLR's. The competition is developing already and unlike Sony, they have no real 1080p camcorder market to protect.

When Sony gets into something, it does it in a major way, with the exception of a period of some 10 years after Akio Morita, Sony's founder suffered a stroke and later died. Steve Jobs of Apple was one of the biggest Sony - Morita fans; he is doing at Apple what Morita was at one time doing at Sony - and it works. Since Howard Stringer took over Sony's management, things are slowly getting back to the old ways. We see it in their push in the DSLR field. A100 was a KH - Sony compromise product. The newer DSLR's were developed under Sony's management. Practically all the sales are being generated by one model with 3 variations, A200, 300, 350.

Sony does not introduce a model until the development is perfect, at least that is how it used to be. Stringer is pushing for faster development cycles.

[destrianlives]

People, just give me a Full Frame A700 replacement at $1600 or $1800 US Dollars with Nikon D3 noise levels and I'm good... for 5 years! The only reason then that I'd buy the A900 is for Hi-Res jobs! Now, gimmie, Gimmie, GIMMIE SONY!hiccup!