A900 and Tilt & Shift

[Dr. Harout]

Andreas, that's quite interesting and welcome to the forum.
But would you please mention the respective angle of coverage when using such lenses on A900?

[Schmiddi]

Andreas, that's quite interesting and welcome to the forum.
But would you please mention the respective angle of coverage when using such lenses on A900?

Thanks - and about coverage: well, mm are mm - so if you add a 40mm Hasselblad lens to an A900 it will have the same coverage than any other 40mm lens on the Alpha. No changes, so do not compare the angle of view given by Hasselblad, it is right for a negative of 56x56mm² - when using the lens with 24x36mm² we are cropping a bit... Only the big circle of the image produced by the lens (a Hasselblad V-type lens should have a circle > 79mm to cover a negative of 56x56mm²) allows shifting. The Schneider-lens has a circle of 62mm - so shifting is more limitted (mechanics allow 11mm each side, though shifting right/left is reported to be limitted more to something like 6 to 8mm due to more and more weak image quality at the border).
So using Hasselblad-lenses (or other MF-lenses) means that we don't have a wideangle lens. But you can take hassle-free panorama: just shift the lens to the left and to the right and you'll have two exact matching pictures. The Schneider is better here with it's 28mm - and the panorama-option is still there
I will try to get one within the next week and try it on my next trip to Tallinn (beautiful old town there...).

Andreas

[Dr. Harout]

Look here for Arsat shift lens
http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts ... 144#420144

[Schmiddi]

Well - this Arsat-shot looks really good. Problem: the new Arsat-design does not fit to the A900, the knobs collide with the prism The old design (that works) is at least here in Germany available with names as B.I.G. - same glass, but obviously different coatings... There are very different reports in the net - and then even 600€ can be too much.

By the way: there is Hartblei (also from Ukraine, as Arsat) - but they use Hasselblad-lenses (they get the Zeiss-optics directly without body and build a shift/tilt-lens around that). And so the price is similar to new Hasselblad-gear (around 5000€ for the 40mm...). And 40mm is far away from wideangle... Reports about the 80mm and 120mm are great, but well - heavy price...

Andreas

[David Kilpatrick]

Hartblei do not use Hasselblad optics! They use CZ Jena optics, confirmed by Phase One who are working with Hartblei on a revised 45mm Super Rotator with new aperture blades, improved mechanisms and coatings. The optical designs are the same as the former Kiev/Arsat/Arax etc lenses, but the optical production has moved back after over 50 years to its original home in Dresden or Jena, I was not able to find out exactly where. The new glass should be better than former Pentacon standard, and Pentacon's lenses remain excellent even under today's demands. It is not Carl Zeiss Oberkochen glass as Hasselblad was in the past.

David

[Dr. Harout]

Take a look here:
http://www.araxfoto.com/accessories/tilt/

[Schmiddi]

Well, David, I found this: http://www.hartblei.eu/en/sr40if.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - and these prototype-series has the same technical data than the Hasselblad-lenses (4/40IF, 2,8/80 and 4/120 makro). That's why I connected this together. The lens from Phase-one is different (45mm)... But there is no reference to CZ Oberkochen on their homepage, so maybe I was completely wrong there (only CZ and made in Germany, as you write). But anyway: the lenses are beyond my budget

Andreas

[David Kilpatrick]

I retract that then - Phase One's lens is probably a Jena/Dresden lens, but this 40mm is definitely an Oberkochen current Hasselblad type Distagon-IF, no doubt about it from the optical diagram. Oberkochen has provided 'loose' lenses (unmounted) to OEM markets for many years and I once owned an unmounted 38mm Biogon presumably made for aerial mapping - no iris, no focusing, no shutter. Docter Optics of Wetzlar acquired some designs or equipment from Jena - from whom I bought an incredible 45mm f4.5 ultra wide capable of covering 5 x 4 sheet film. They own, or part-own, the Tessar lens name which was retained by both West and East German Zeiss - I believe they bought this right from Jena, and in the early 1990s they certainly tried to make a series of Tessar large format lenses. Looks as if this failed but they are left with:

http://docter-optics.de/hp31740/Auto-Te ... Lenses.htm

The former CZ Jena became Jenoptik (don't fully understand how that relates to Carl Zeiss Oberkochen, as they apparently had the company returned to them after 1988) and it looks as if they, like Docter, don't make many familiar camera lenses these days - but they could be making Distagon components. Even a brief search reveals that the German lens industry has dozens of familiar names still operating, some like Isco and Schott part of CZ. Jenoptik:

http://www.jenoptik.com/cps/rde/xchg/SI ... /index.htm

Does not look a place where a relatively cheap 35mm TS design could be (optically) made in Germany instead of being made in Kiev.

David

[pakodominguez]

how about an alpha mount vertion of these lens?
http://rokkorfiles.com/24mm%20VFC.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I remember I tried to buy one on EBay a couple of years ago, but it went for too expensive for what I wanted to pay for.

What I really would love is an adapter for my XPan lenses -I think the 30mm will work perfectly on a T&S adapter.

Regards

[pakodominguez]

http://lensbaby.com/lenses-composer.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
at f11 or f16 probably can replace a T&S lens, what do you think?

[David Kilpatrick]

Pako, the 30mm Xpan lens has such a short back focus it could never be used as a tilt-shift on a DSLR. The LensBaby has more potential, I have the earlier model 2 and really there's no way of getting ultra-sharp pix though it will serve at its smallest apertures as a non-soft-focus lens. But mainly it is an extremely soft, impressionist lens.

One possible solution would be to take a modest 35mm TS design - or just a shift design - and fit a high quality wide angle converter. I have a Soligor 0.7X Pro which is substantial - 62mm thread - and very high in quality. Fitted to a 35mm PC lens it would make a 25mm PC... but would it work I wonder, or vignette? Since it can convert a 28mm lens to a 20mm without problems, maybe it would be OK.

David

[pakodominguez]

Pako, the 30mm Xpan lens has such a short back focus it could never be used as a tilt-shift on a DSLR.

I'm not that good in optics (...) but i don't get how some lenses you can mount on a bellows (field cameras) works a whathever distance of the film plane and this beauty won't work...

The LensBaby has more potential, I have the earlier model 2 and really there's no way of getting ultra-sharp pix though it will serve at its smallest apertures as a non-soft-focus lens. But mainly it is an extremely soft, impressionist lens.

Well, I played for 2 minutes with the nu Composer and it has a totaly different approach than the previous versions -but I didn't ask if the optics are the same as the coated ones on the V2 and G3 (now called "control freak") that I own but, alas, don't use as much as I would like...

Lensbaby will be launch a new WA adaptor that will convert the ~50mm lenses on 30mm (I heard that Hoya make all the lenses for them) and even if I thought that I won't get a new Lensbaby (I bought the 3 versions and stick with the 3G) I'm considering this brand new design (I can probably get at a discount price thanks to the people I work for)

Anyway, it isn't a solution for tilt and shift work -but it is soooo fun!

One possible solution would be to take a modest 35mm TS design - or just a shift design - and fit a high quality wide angle converter. I have a Soligor 0.7X Pro which is substantial - 62mm thread - and very high in quality. Fitted to a 35mm PC lens it would make a 25mm PC... but would it work I wonder, or vignette? Since it can convert a 28mm lens to a 20mm without problems, maybe it would be OK.
David

Have you ever use the 35mm Shift CA f2.8 or the 24mm f2.8 VFC?

Regards
PS: it's getting windy and cold in NYC, and I have to work all night long :-/)

[David Kilpatrick]

Have you ever use the 35mm Shift CA f2.8 or the 24mm f2.8 VFC?

Both, and they were superb. I owned a 24mm VFC for several years. It had limited uses with its cup-and-cap method of altering the focus plane, but was otherwise a perfect 24mm.

David

[PhotoTraveler]

If you are really adventurous, one could potentially modify the new nikon PC-Es to work. But their is a catch. The new nikons have electronic apertures, which is cool in that if you supplied it power to the lens, which you might be able to pull straight from the body contacts you could remove the mount, make a new one that bolts onto the lens and use it. And your aperture would work at a press of a button on the lens. Pretty cool. But there is a catch. In such a job, you probably don't want to permanently modify the lens. So if you replace the mount, the nikon contacts have to remain. This makes it impossible to fit the nikon on a Sony and still be centered, you might get it if you shift the whole lens down. Not so hot. If you were ok with permanently damaging the lens and removing them (no going back), you could probably make it work.

If nikon had stuck with mechanical aperture like their old 85TS, you could use it without issue, just do a mount swap. But interest in a 85mm TS isn't very high.

The part that is a real bummer here is if Nikon hadn't brought theirs. Tamron or Sigma probably would have brought out some TS lenses. But with both the big 2 now having said options, I doubt Tamron or Sigma will bother. The flip side is Sony now will be seeing the need, so they should be working on such a lens.

What would be nice is if Zeiss brought out something. Before the nikon effort, a TS ZF would have made a lot of sense. Now they would mainly just have Pentax as a market, not much of one. A ZS version would be cool, but at this point doubtful to be worth it to them.

What I expect sooner than later is some Micro 4/3rds adapters for adapting 35mm lenses to mFT bodies that are shift/tilt adapters. Let you mount F mount lenses to mFT bodies. With some tricker, one might even get the nikon 14-24 working (they have got it working on canon). That could be quiet the setup.

[alba63]

Hi, I am new here, I have registered because I am thinking about buying the a900. I currently shoot a FUji S3/S5 and a Kodak SLR-n, I like the a900 because it seems to have good colour, DR and resolution.

However the lack of shift (tilt) lenses is one important factor for me in my decision: I had sold my Canon stuff 1 year ago, but even now a used Canon 5d with a 24mm TS-E cost me hardly more than 2000Euro, the price of a Nikon d700 (which is less sharp than the Canon) - but in this case I would not have enough money left for a new Sony setup - it also seems like a crazy idea to buy into 3 systems.

So, I'll add my voice in saying that yes! a Sony shift lens (24 or 28mm) would be very welcome. Should they announce one, I'd not hesitate in buying the a900 very soon. Without such an option (although I now read about the Schneider option - at least something!) the system is only partly interesting for me. As others have said: A shift lens with the a900 would yield sensational architecture shots in low ISO.

regards
Bernie