Sony got it wrong......

[bfitzgerald]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/ ... =UTF8&pg=4

Go down the page, and at 93rd place, it's the A230.

Meanwhile, the outgoing A200 is on top spot..

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/ ... =UTF8&pg=1

My question is this, some are saying that it was a great move from sony, to target new users and inexperienced ones, and that they would sell a ton of these cameras.

So why is the A230 struggling to even stay in the top 100? Simple, they got it wrong..and I predict their sales will not even be near the last batch of cameras, or possibly they might be a flop. The point is, things move on, Canon are shortly to bring out a new entry model, some say it will have video, and possibly even a 15mp sensor. Even on megapixels..what was impressive 18 months ago, isn't today.

Cameras get better over time, even low end ones. Sony failed to grasp this basic concept..let the pain begin. They could even lose market share this year.

[alphaomega]

bfitzgerald may be right above, maybe not on the spec. difference, but rather on the price difference. The A200 with 17-70 is currently listed on Amazon UK at £284.50 whereas the A230 with 17-55 is listed at £449.00 or more than £150 more expensive. It could be that the savvy buyers go for the low price offer on what is essentially as good a camera as the new one. Time will show if Sony has got it right for the P&S upgraders, but not at £449.00 for the A230. Somebody highlighted the omission of the AEL button on the A230. I agree that is a mistake but most P&S owners are used to half depress the shutter to get the same effect and that facility is available on the A230. When using my MD system and Mamiya I used naturally to control all functions. Now with the A350/700 I tend to use P and auto focus/exposure with rare adjustments such as shooting telephoto with the A700 and frantically turning one of the wheels to increase shutter speed. I think that the A230 will do the job for the intended market except for the lack of video. That could be a longer term problem. Most beginners do not need more than 10Mp and for some file size could be a problem with a 15Mp sensor. As I said time will show if Sony were right, but at £449.00 I doubt they will sell many.

[Birma]

When the A200 came out it was more expensive than the £250 it typically goes for now. See http://camerapricebuster.co.uk/prod609.html which suggests the A200 kit was actually £450 when it came out. All cameras seem to come out at an initially high RRP and then come down over time (the Camera Price Buster site is very good for showing this. Seems a normal approach - get rid of your old stock at a low price, and then once that has gone reduce the price of your newer stuff etc. etc. So, I am not surpised that the A230 is selling slower at the moment. A bit early to cry "the sky is falling" .

I note that the Nikon D60 is in 2nd place on Amazon UK, with the D5000 in 8th (still pretty good), but the D5000 has come down around £100 already. Perhaps not a good comparison as I think I heard that Nikon will continue producing the D60.

[Greg Beetham]

Actually the omission of an AEL button on a DSLR with KM heritage is a major gaff, there is a whole bunch of features now missing off those cameras that the owners of them will never get a chance too experiment with and learn to use.
With a seperate exposure hold button (AEL) that doesn't focus the camera, you can grab an exposure of the sky or a highlight and then focus with the shutter button while holding the AEL button (or have it set too toggle), so you can preserve edge detail backlit by the sky or prserve highlight detail.
Also doing street scenes off a tripod you can use the AEL button to trade exposures from one focus point to another if you want.
Then again if you mount a system flash on the camera the AEL button can perform an instant flash balance exposure for you, a press of the AEL and hold (or toggle) depending on how you have it set, will cause the camera to balance the bright background with the shaded in-focus subjects, doing all the hard work for you at the press of a button.
Why the removal of all that functionality that was already there for free is such a good idea is a mystery too me...and others as well I daresay.
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

A few things to note

If you look at the top 15 even top 10 cameras, not everything there is super cheap. Which adds a "bang per buck" factor into things. Of course the newer A230 is more than the A200 right now, it's price will fall, but it is surprising to see a "new camera" model, rank so poorly on amazon.

So the lack of wow is part of the issue, it's a tough sell at anything bar give-away prices. I also think Sony are wrong to assume most p&s buyers are into DSLR's, they ain't! Also, some folks do research on cameras, and they will find the sony "worst in class", as well as not cheap enough. Current Alpha users most likely won't even look at them. With a lack of punch, a model range that offers nothing to current potential upgraders. Sony are clearly chasing a market that is not there. You cannot get it much more wrong than that. Heads will roll down at alpha HQ over this, when the sales just don't cut it.

Problem is new users don't just go for the simplest camera, they buy D90's/D5000's, Canon 450/500's, even G1's. Sony's simplistic view of potential buyers is nothing more than an ill informed sample of non camera buyers!

[Heidfirst]

Problem is new users don't just go for the simplest camera, they buy D90's/D5000's, Canon 450/500's, even G1's. Sony's simplistic view of potential buyers is nothing more than an ill informed sample of non camera buyers!

you are assuming that Sony isn't going to bring a model or models into the space above those though.
What happens if you have these 3 for the P+S upgraders & then a "5" & a "7" class body (or bodies) as well?
I honestly don't believe that it's outwith the realms of possibility of there being 6, 7 or even 8 current Alpha APS-C bodies.

[bfitzgerald]

I don't assume anything. We had some basic whispers regarding an A500/550.
But no information, no doubt shortly I would think
Only then can we make a judgement on what is going on system wide.

Still does not change the fact current users have nothing (bar the A700, which is now end of production) to upgrade too. A "real" and non newbie A200-350 re-fresh..could have satisfied those users.

I'll put money down right now, that these A500 ones are not going to be bargain basement priced. So where does that leave the "I don't want to spend £600+" buyer?
And if the info is correct, we will have 5 models to cover entry to upper entry level..why not just make that 2?

I don't get what sony are up to. I suspect they don't either

[stevecim]

You missed the a230 in 68th position,
Could the lack of sales be due to lack of stock

The new cameras are a hard sell, I've tried, I've helped some friends choose SLR, they had all played with my A350 and where very keen, In the store they picked up the A330 and then put it straight back down, hated the grip, they decided to spend extra and buy Nikon D5000 with twin VR lens kit.
Which is AU$300.00 cheaper than the A700 twin lens kit (in Australia).

The reason they gave for chosing, the D5000 was better to hold and seemed better built, the VR kits "looked" like they where better made. and when they compared features the D5000 looked better spec'ed than even the A330 and A700 . They would have preferred the D5000 have a view finder like A700 but a least it was better than the A330, VR kit lenses negate Alpha SSS, since they had no interest in buy extra lenses.
Also one of my friends also noted the Sony Flashes and lenses seemed to cost a lot more than Nikon. i.e Nikon 80-400VR is nearly AU$2000.00 cheaper than the sony 70-400G. I was unable to prove that the Sony 70-400G was a $2000.00 better lens. Sony have very few lenses under AU$1000.00 in Australia. Also I was unable to stop the salemans from making comments like "Sony High ISO is S-h-i-t", "no video" , "the pros all use canon or Nikon" etc.....

[Heidfirst]

I'll put money down right now, that these A500 ones are not going to be bargain basement priced. So where does that leave the "I don't want to spend £600+" buyer?

well Canon's cheapest (1000D) is about £350 (SRP£460) & I suspect that Nikon's D40/D60 replacement isn't going to be cheap either - either due to currency or whatever I think that there is a definite across the board attempt to get the entry level DSLR prices up.

And if the info is correct, we will have 5 models to cover entry to upper entry level..why not just make that 2?

I don't get what sony are up to. I suspect they don't either

it looks like they are trying to apply P+S marketing principles to DSLRs - different sensors, different body colours etc.
I'm not ready to write off their marketing yet as I can see some logic in having a consumer friendly range, a prosumer range & eventually a professional range which is basically what Canon & Nikon have as well. It may or may not be successful but I at least applaud Sony for trying to do something different.