Sony and The Future

[Old Hydro]

The a850 is the replacement. Read this:

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/ne ... ml?aff=rss

Actually that article says the 850 is aimed at 700 users wanting to move up to full frame. At no point does it say that the 850 is a replacement for the 700.

True. But in corporate speak, I think they are telling the customer that Sony does not believe there is a market for a $1500 camera that is taking pictures at less than full frame.

[DonSchap]

Based on what has been released by SONY, in this year alone, there is absolutely no reason not to be completely forthcoming with what is planned. At PMA 09, they were almost heavy-handed about the "+30s". They really needed to be the "-30s".

I mean the "dumbing-down" of the previous releases is almost shameful, but hardly something to keep under your vest!

THEN ... the a850 comes out ... another "dumbing-down", only this one is of the a900. Guys, that is NOT earthshaking news ... yet, the "faithful" are kept in the dark until release. No one is coming to the SONY party because there is nothing NEW to come get. Heck, I contend we are having a heck of a time just keeping the "newbies" in the ranks with this apparent and unbelievable shift into low gear.


NOW ... the a700 bites the dust with NO replacement even "officially" hinted at, just this rather mediocre a550/a500 camera w/ LiveView. It doesn't even qualify as a "dumbing-down" ... it actually missing entire features of the a700.

Uh ... please raise your hand if you are a bit confused with all the dumbing-down of the original Minolta designs? Has society (SONY-buyers) really been perceived to be so stupid that they cannot appreciate real advancement in DSLR design and it has to be ... retarded?

SONY ... you have no advancement to protect. I guess if I was doing all this "retarding work" on my line of cameras, I'd be too embarrassed to announce it beforehand, also. Two steps forward, one back. Come on, Retro-advancement ... riding the wave of the past.

I get it! I really do! Sally forth! I dare ya to prove me wrong!

[Javelin]

are you going on about them not telling you what their plans are? I don't understand most of what you wrote..

[Alpha1000]

Don't worry. The gap between APSC and FF will be filled. You won't be disappointed.

The problem is that Sony needs to differentiate between their cameras to position them in the marketplace. Sure they could make #230 as good as #500, and with MLU, etc. But then no one would buy #500 and there is little profit in #230.

Compare the cameras with Canikon for value and you'll see that Sony cameras, considering their IS type, are very good.

[DonSchap]

are you going on about them not telling you what their plans are? I don't understand most of what you wrote..

You are getting the message.

Reversing course on camera design is bizarre. Just for the sake of argument, when was the last time you saw Canon take a higher numbered series camera ... and turn it into something less than the one before it? I believe we call that "bass-ackwards", here in the states.

The entire series of 2xx and 3xx cameras were ... well, systematically reduced.

The a850 is less than the a900 and that, at least, has some semblance of propriety to it ... but again, a reduction in firepower. The a700 disappears from production ... "seemingly" replaced by a pair of cameras nothing like it, for the moment. I mean, the new customers, that are looking at SONY for the first time, are ... well, scratching their respective heads. The problem is, the rest of us are doing the same thing, too ... because we frankly have no idea what is in the cards. The vague or non-existent admission of a NEW a7xx just does not make much sense. If something is coming ... where is the "hype?" Give the "washed" something cheer about. The Nikonians and Canonites are having a field day at our expense. Frankly, I grow tired of defending the indefensible. The SONY DSLR seems more like "the Alamo" ... and Sam Houston is out of reach.

Just a small news release ... with a real date on it. Give the "defenders" some hope.

[Alpha1000]

Sony did extend the A200-300 series up and down.

The #230-380 series are the new budget cameras, simplified for beginners. They take superior pictures, except for high ISO. David tested A350 against Canon 7D. The much less expensive Sony wins in picture quality in the ISO range, where 95% pictures are taken by the type of customer this camera is aimed for.

A550 has superior JPEG engine compare to 7D. It wins even at high ISO. It has the advanced panorama mode, superior LV modes, etc. The 500 series is positioned for a higher segment of the market than the A380 is.

A850 sells close to 7D prices. You can still get A700 from selected sources. At super low prices. If you shoot RAW, can any Canikon camera of similar price beat its quality? No.

Sony will naturally fill the gap between A700 and A850.

Just don't believe the negative PR campaign waged at a major forum site, led by certain Barry and a bunch of other members, who all seem to remind me of Barry and a certain person, who was banned on all sites, including on this one. It may be two people posting there under many nicks. The style certainly supports this theory. They would be immediately banned in Canikon forums. But the parent company of that site is competing with Sony in certain area, so they seem to enjoy what is going on. See how unfair their tests of Sony gear are.

Sony has a $2000 FF camera with superior picture quality.
Sony has superior live view.
Sony has superior beginners interface.
Sony has all lenses stabilized, including all primes.
Sony has Zeiss lenses.
Sony started couple years ago from zero.

The ones who wage negative campaign against Sony's basic cameras for no MLU, etc. are just miserable sociopaths, subhuman beings. We must feel sorry for them. At least one of them should be wearing straitjacket all of the time. The other one should crawl from his hole once in a while and see that the world is a beautiful place; if one does not have it all screwed up in his head.

Carl hinted that A550 will be unpopular with reviewers. The more Sony beats the competition, the less Canon likes it and with that I believe go certain messages and "other things" to the reviewers. It is the same in video, where e.g. on the major forum site Canon pays directly to the owner, by employing him for various tasks. Sony's marketing is different. It has class. And it costs them in crooked reviews.

This site is different. It has honesty, class, and David's superior expertise. Everyone knows it. I just think that he should ban one more person.

[peterottaway]

Basically I don't believe in banning - period.

What is frustrating is that Nikon which a lot of people use as a benchmark for cameras start their advanced/ enthusiast range with the D90 ( even if deliberately slightly limited ) and then offer the D300s and the D700. The A550 for whatever the quality of its new sensor, falls short of what many of us expect in an enthusiast camera package.

This is very frustrating for those who aspire in their photography but are limited in what they can spend. With effort a USD 1000 camera may be achievable but USD 1800 to 2000 is not.

What some of us are hoping for is a clear statement of intent at the serious end of the market.

[Birma]

The ones who wage negative campaign against Sony's basic cameras for no MLU, etc. are just miserable sociopaths, subhuman beings. We must feel sorry for them. At least one of them should be wearing straitjacket all of the time. The other one should crawl from his hole once in a while and see that the world is a beautiful place; if one does not have it all screwed up in his head.

A plea to Alpha1000 - calm down. I'm not a Moderator - just a concerned user. This is a photography forum. No one is getting hurt. We have not had name calling for ages and it does not represent any of us well.

I may not agree with Barry all of the time, but he is always polite. He has a point to get across, just like you do. Neither of you are more or less right than the other. Getting all upset helps none of us.

[David Kilpatrick]

If I ban anyone it will not be Barry

First of all, Barry expresses his position very clearly. He prefers to shoot with film - and I know many professional wedding photographers under my other hat, as editor of a magazine aimed entirely at wedding and portrait photographers - who share his preference. He likes certain features to be present in cameras and he is not wrong in any way to criticise the lack of MLU, Program Shift, D-o-F preview or other key functions in newer models.

I can tell you that I had some difficulty yesterday testing macro on the A550 just because of one factor - no mirror lockup, and the way the Manual Focus Preview works with mirror actions to secure the shot at the end of viewing. Had Sony simply enabled a picture to be captured without the mirror doing a double flip, my pictures might have been sharp.

All opinions are welcome here except opinions about other people - personally. That is what got Sonolta banned, his inability to argue about things without resorting to personal attacks and insults. So please restrict opinions to the equipment, or photography in general, and respect others who differ from your own view.

David

[Greg Beetham]

Sony does some brilliant stuff (high picture quality etc.) with the new A550 and then they spoil it with some dopey blooper, like with the mirror up LV, (good one Sony) and then have the mirror flipping down and up again for the photo, (duh) causing unnecessary vibrations at high magnification....and it's not the fault of the SLR type design (in having a mirror), it's a lack of design forethought pure and simple. It makes one wonder if Sony has people who are actually photographers in the works...testing and reviewing internally, and making recommendations during the proto-design stages.

David I was wondering, does the behavour of the mirror change at all if SSS is turned OFF, probably won't be any difference but thought it might be worth a shot. The whole shutter cycle sequence is probably timed from the mirror action (for initialization), so it might require a re-design to incorporate a 'non' mirror-action-shutter-sequence.
Greg

[bossel]

And let's not forgot the new HDR function, straight from the camera.

I found some samples on a french forum: click (what you see is first the normal shot and then with HDR 1IL 2IL 3IL)

[Javelin]

Reversing course on camera design is bizarre. Just for the sake of argument, when was the last time you saw Canon take a higher numbered series camera ... and turn it into something less than the one before it? I believe we call that "bass-ackwards", here in the states.

Well since the Rebel came out the build quality on subsequent bodies has been getting somewhat less every generation. I don;t pay much attention to Canon otherwise. everyone I know has gone to Sony, Nikon or Olympus from Canon in recent years. Funny you didn't want to use Nikon as an exampe..


The entire series of 2xx and 3xx cameras were ... well, systematically reduced.

Reduced.. or expanded?

The a850 is less than the a900 and that, at least, has some semblance of propriety to it ... but again, a reduction in firepower.

The A900 is still available.. again expanding the line


The a700 disappears from production ... "seemingly" replaced by a pair of cameras nothing like it, for the moment.

Well their not done yet aparently. so calling either the A850 or the A5x0 cameras the replacement is maybe a little premature.

I mean, the new customers, that are looking at SONY for the first time, are ... well, scratching their respective heads.

Are they? the only people I see debating this is on the forums. And only a few forums dedicated to Alpha. everywhere else they talk about the new cameras rather than lack of ones they wished they had

The vague or non-existent admission of a NEW a7xx just does not make much sense. If something is coming ... where is the "hype?" Give the "washed" something cheer about.

Really Name the models from any other maker that are being released at the next Camera event?

Nobody tips their hand in this business Sony won't either, and really they never have before on anything else. Every time Sony has released cameras it's been a surprise which fits with their history. I don;t think Sony pays much attention to the other makers frankly I think they rely pretty heavily on their marketing people and these forums are weighted very low in that sceme in terms of positioning cameras in the market. I Posted to Barry about how it could be his crusade for MLU. and other functions may have set is stone Sony's attitude about what an advanced amateur was willing to pay extra for to get. If these functions are so valuable then people will pay more for the higherline units.

Frankly, I grow tired of defending the indefensible. The SONY DSLR seems more like "the Alamo" ... and Sam Houston is out of reach.

I don't think they need you to defend them really.

Just a small news release ... with a real date on it. Give the "defenders" some hope.

Any Date they give would be wrong. Also anything they said would just get panned in the forums anyway. It doesn't matter what they release or do they will not be taken seriously by the review sites for years to come. better to just do your thing and gain share as best you can. the other players are weaker Sony has money and time, they can afford to go at the pace they want.

[alphaomega]

A big appeal to David Kilpatrick to clear up this talk of missiong "program shift" on the A550.

David wrote about Barry Fitzgerald

He likes certain features to be present in cameras and he is not wrong in any way to criticise the lack of MLU, Program Shift, D-o-F preview or other key functions in newer models.

Barry Fitzgerald maintains there is no program shift on the A550. I have posted elsewhere that a form of program shift is indicated on the DPReview preview of the A550 here: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sonydslra550/page5.asp

Program Exposure (with shift)
Program exposure mode on the A550 can be shifted, this means that you can select one of a variety of equal exposures by turning the control dial, by default the exposure is shifted by shutter speed (indicated as PS), you can choose to shift by aperture (PA) by changing the 'Control dial set' option in the custom menu.

Is DPReview wrong or is Barry talking about a different form of Program Shift? If so what?

[David Kilpatrick]

There is no Control Dial function setting in any set-up menu and there is no Custom menu. In program mode, nothing you can do (I have tried all ways) will make the control wheel have any effect. Turning it does nothing - unless you press another button like +/- over-ride in which case it does have an effect, but the intended one.

Program is program, no shift. It's actually a fairly serious omission. dPreview is wrong, that entry must have been cut and pasted from a different camera.

David

[alphaomega]

Thanks for that clarification David. I am lost for speech. That program shift was essential to increase shutter speed or vise verca depending on need. I just cannot believe that Sony would do this to the A550 when it was in the A350 and naturally A700 with two wheels. I frequently used that function. That omission probably puts me off purchasing the A550. I wonder what goes on in the Alpha department of Sony. Maybe I should purchase another A350.