PMA round up

[Vidgamer]

Well I hope you folks like a nice touch screen compact with a big sensor

They had me at "big sensor".

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=34763244

Shall we put Greg down for one now? lol

I saw a website that showed buttons and dials and such on the back of it. Fake? Photoshopped?

I'm not sure if I like the idea of a touch screen or not. I like the idea that the menu adapts to what mode you're in, but I still like the tactile feel of buttons. I think the jury's still out on what the final unit will look like, much less the button layout (or lack thereof).

[Vidgamer]

....
They will also be adding a new type of memory stick, incompatible with the last one, and it won't be used by anyone else for anything. We'll call it "memory suck" for arguments sake!

Sorry, I was reading too much George Orwell lately

To be Orwellian, wouldn't it have to make use of some double-speak... something like, "OpenStick" or "UniversalMemory"? You can use it in ALL of the new Sony products that you'll have to buy in order to make use of it! Free to use only this type of memory! What a deal!

(Next example, your neighborhood politician speaking of "revenue enhancement", or "investing" taxpayer money [as opposed to "spending"]...or "public option"...or... )

[Vidgamer]

I'm actually pretty excited about the EVIL Alphas. With those covering the entry-level end of the range, and doing all the duties of a P&S for those easily confused amateurs, the DSLRs might have room to grow into the more complex and comprehensive tools that we all want them to be.

But why are they called "EVIL" in the first place? Either because some enthusiasts seem bothered that a non pro-looking camera might actually get good results (having a DSLR might not feel as special), or they are afraid that DSLRs will be underdeveloped as attention is given to a more popular line of cameras.

Good results will be had by the masses, so that I think is a good thing.

[Greg Beetham]

Yeah, I never liked the acronym 'EVIL' much myself, Electronic Veiwfinder Interchangable Lens, but I somtimes think it's appropriate or even handy, depending on how you want to view the emergence and evolution of these cameras, if you see it as a threat for example, or an unnecessary degrading influence on building an ever better DSLR that takes only still photos.
I don't think (when Sony gets around to it), that they will release a dud, I'm reasonably optimistic that it will take ok pix, and probably fairly good video. If the user interface and the ergonomics are good it might be a desireable addition for quite a few who use DSLR's now...we'll see in due course.
Sony so far has released some very good DSLR's but have yet too release one that's close to perfect, there has always been some minor collection of niggles, and a couple of not so minor one's as well. So there is still room for Sony to design and build our dream DSLR at some point.
What many (including me) are wondering is, is Sony going to get their attention diverted with these VIDEO-LV-ILC's and put DSLR development on the backburner? thinking the DSLR is yesterdays news and not many will buy a new model once the ILC's take over.
Greg

[Vidgamer]

...
Sony so far has released some very good DSLR's but have yet too release one that's close to perfect, there has always been some minor collection of niggles, and a couple of not so minor one's as well. So there is still room for Sony to design and build our dream DSLR at some point.

Perfect? According to Barry, they're moving backwards! (Although, the A500 seemed to me to be something I'd like....)

What many (including me) are wondering is, is Sony going to get their attention diverted with these VIDEO-LV-ILC's and put DSLR development on the backburner? thinking the DSLR is yesterdays news and not many will buy a new model once the ILC's take over.
Greg

The thing is, in order for a company to devote less time to DSLRs, the only way you could justify it is if fewer people were buying DSLRs. What may happen is that Sony is opening up a new market, and they'll sell as many DSLRs as before. But there's a larger market of people who wouldn't buy a DSLR, or want a 2nd smaller camera that isn't a DSLR. So I think the panic is a bit premature. If anything, Sony would make and sell fewer entry-level DSLRs and concentrate on the more featured ones. Well, that's my crazy idea, but I suppose it's up to them to actually do it.

[bossel]

Lets look three years from now:

1 -APS-C sensors will only be used in EVIL compacts, some of which might be high end to achieve very fast focus and fast shoot-to-shoot time for long bursts.

2 -All DSLR will be full frame, with entry models starting at maybe $600-$700.

[Dr. Harout]

Lets look three years from now:

1 -APS-C sensors will only be used in EVIL compacts, some of which might be high end to achieve very fast focus and fast shoot-to-shoot time for long bursts.

2 -All DSLR will be full frame, with entry models starting at maybe $600-$700.

It makes sense.

[bakubo]

Lets look three years from now:

1 -APS-C sensors will only be used in EVIL compacts, some of which might be high end to achieve very fast focus and fast shoot-to-shoot time for long bursts.

2 -All DSLR will be full frame, with entry models starting at maybe $600-$700.

Bookmarked.

[Dusty]

I want that Full Frame DSLR for $600-$700! And if we're looking 3 years from now, I want them to be 30 MP or better, too!

Dusty

[alphaomega]

bossel wrote:
Lets look three years from now:

1 -APS-C sensors will only be used in EVIL compacts, some of which might be high end to achieve very fast focus and fast shoot-to-shoot time for long bursts.

2 -All DSLR will be full frame, with entry models starting at maybe $600-$700.

and Dr Harout replied:
It makes sense.

Sorry, but it does not make sense to me. In my humble opinion there is still a market for a successor to the forthcoming A700 successor with APS-C. If Sony can match the Canon 7D sensor for pixel Nos and exceed colour rendition and dynamic range I see absolutely no need for FF and lots of other photographers will think likewise. There are issues, if you absolutely do not need 24Mp and above, such as size, weight, dust, DOF and price of body/lenses. There are surely markets for the EVILs, APS-C DSLRs and FF DSLRs.

[bfitzgerald]

I think we will see FF break the £1000 barrier in the not too distant future, that's without question. However it might take a while to get lower than that.
I'd like to see FF as the future, but time will tell, maybe..but it's going to be a gradual thing IMO.

For lower to mid point bodies APS-C looks set to stick around for at least a while.

[bossel]

Sorry, but it does not make sense to me. In my humble opinion there is still a market for a successor to the forthcoming A700 successor with APS-C.

Absolutely, there is a market for an APS-C A700 successor - I was talking about a few years later.

For lower to mid point bodies APS-C looks set to stick around for at least a while.

Let's say around 3 years

Honestly, once these EVILs are out and have a decent set of lenses (that's a prereq, of course!), I don't see anybody running around with an A500, when the EVIL has the same specs and same picture quality.(ok,ok, it lacks MLU )

The advanced ones who swear by optical viewfinders and mirrors and phase-detect AF etc can get a DSLR, just in 3 years FF will be cheap enough for the masses.

[alphaomega]

Bossel wrote:

The advanced ones who swear by optical viewfinders and mirrors and phase-detect AF etc can get a DSLR, just in 3 years FF will be cheap enough for the masses.

As FF gets cheaper to make - if that happens - then the APS-C sensor gets even cheaper and will allow for the 7D equivalent still to beat FF on price. Whatever price point the FF camera manages to get down to, the fact still remains that the APS-C DSLR with equivalent functionality will remain cheaper and in any event the FF will still be larger, heavier more prone to collect dust and more expensive with dearer lenses as well as having a narrover DOF. The APS-C DSLR will be able to satisfy the majority of non professionals with an 18Mp quality sensor. I rest my case at this point and confirm my strong positioning at the APS-C size.

[KevinBarrett]

When FF gets cheap enough for the masses, that's when we'll get plastic-bodied FF cameras resembling a Minolta Maxxum 3 more than a Sony Alpha a900. 35mm cameras have always been cheap enough for the masses, but metal-bodied pro-spec cameras have always been not.

[Dusty]

Bossel wrote:

The advanced ones who swear by optical viewfinders and mirrors and phase-detect AF etc can get a DSLR, just in 3 years FF will be cheap enough for the masses.

As FF gets cheaper to make - if that happens - then the APS-C sensor gets even cheaper and will allow for the 7D equivalent still to beat FF on price. Whatever price point the FF camera manages to get down to, the fact still remains that the APS-C DSLR with equivalent functionality will remain cheaper and in any event the FF will still be larger, heavier more prone to collect dust and more expensive with dearer lenses as well as having a narrover DOF. The APS-C DSLR will be able to satisfy the majority of non professionals with an 18Mp quality sensor. I rest my case at this point and confirm my strong positioning at the APS-C size.

As sensor chips and internals get cheaper and better, the gap between FF and APS-C gets less and less. They still have to make a profit, and that will will eventually be most of the cost (excepting R&D). Remember when PC's cost an arm and a leg for the base models, and the (then) "screamers" cost the arms and legs from 3 people? Today the difference between a $400 base PC and and a screamer is only 1 arm or leg!

FF doesn't have to be that much larger than APS-C, as they both have the same lens mount, and there's only a small size difference in sensors, relative to the whole body. The cost differential will be small, however people will decide on one over the other due to DOF or wide angle use. I myself want to use the old FF wides as WA lenses, and not buy new ones, so I would be happy to see sub $1k FF cameras.

Dusty