Sony alpha A55

[bfitzgerald]

Greg isn't alone I've never really been resolution driven even from day one. Going from 6mp to 10mp didn't do much for me it's more but nowhere near as much as some suggest def not like going from 35mm to MF film More like going from ISO 200 to ISO 100 film (leaving aside noise etc) I don't crop often bar for print aspect ratios so yes in a way 6mp in most respects meets my needs.
Technology has improved so these newer CMOS sensors are good in low light and high ISO so I've no problems with picking up a camera with them, nor am I scared of noise either as I regularly shoot at high ISO anyway.

Trying to make an objective summing up of the pros and cons of these new fixed mirror models I came up with this (feel free to disagree)

Pros:
Very fast/class leading FPS for a camera in this price range
VF allows WYSIWYG (bar flash obviously) and is larger than equivalent priced OVF ones
Can use VF for video shooting with phase detect AF
Mirror slap not a problem!


Cons:
Some loss of IQ, ghosting, loss of light to the sensor - And design does not allow you to raise the mirror and bypass it.
Phase detect AF for video only works with lens shot at max aperture
Battery life significantly worse v OVF models
Sensor is exposed all the time (dirt and dust more likely a problem)

Other stuff is subjective such as is the body too small or just fine? And the EVF v OVF is a series of pros and cons for both so folks can decide where they stand on that.
So overall I think I'm right saying the main appeal is the video side of things (in particular the VF being used and phase detect AF as well) And fast FPS

But the cons outweigh the pros from my perspective the body is too small for my tastes, I don't like EVF's personally, and I would not accept any compromises to IQ whatsoever even if they are "small" A hit is a hit however you stack it up. And I think this is why other makers have not followed this design, it's a stop gap until they can get phase detect working off the sensor thus removing the need for a mirror for EVF models. Video is not a priority for me it's very low down the list, and I can't think of a single time I needed anywhere near 10fps for any kind of work I have done even action shots. So it's a 2 trick pony for me, they might be 2 neat tricks but they also come with a new set of compromises not found on traditional OVF models. Only longer term use will reveal how they stack up and if there are any problems (heard of over heating etc)

My money is still on Sony moving away from OVF models in the next few years. The token offerings in the DSLR models (and the delays as well) only indicate that A mount is not a very comfortable place for OVF shooters certainly at mid point and below.

[Dusty]

I keep hearing Pentax are working on some nice stuff too, so we can't really judge how Sony stack up until we see what rivals have to offer.

Barry, I keep hearing you say Pentax, and I do like some of their features, along with their pricing. However, I here of slow AF and other problems as well. There is also the biggest problem, IMHO, and that's that their at 5% of the DSLR market, and shrinking.

Do you think they can afford to innovate and produce newer models under those circumstances? I think that if Sony got rid of the OVF, I may want to switch to them, but worry that they might not last in DSLRs. Then again, they have no FF cameras that I'm aware of.

Dusty

[mike2008]

I'd maybe add a few more pro's but they're pretty subjective. There is an error though, it's not max aperture its f/3.5...

I also agree that this design is a stop-gap, designed precisely to get phase - AF and have main sensor LV at the same time, when we can see that the writing on the wall is PD-AF from the main sensor itself. There may be more issues with this than we think, but probably in 1-2 years SLT's will give way to... what... big nexes effectively. Nex e-mount and Nex a-mount. That will confuse everyone.

Still not bad for a stop-gap; it'll give a much needed positive push to the sony alpha brand if the good reviews follow into good sales. I have to say I think they will, the A55 is about as consumer orientated as you get.

Funny how dpr rated it so low for video, when it's by far the best implementation of auto video we've seen so far. They have, by default, classed themselves as videographers...

One note; an A77 might have space for a mirror lift mechanism, which could make it attractive to ghost-hunters

The future of OVF is the biq question, I still think an A750 will be seen very shortly as well as an A950. i really don't think they will quit out of the OVF market so quick, it's just a bunch of scare-mongering...

[bfitzgerald]

Well I'll trust you on the Video aspect ala aperture control and phase detect AF, but it's not really the all in one super solution either, you could argue it's better than other offerings, I'd simply say video isn't that essential to me contrast AF is ok even MF will do if and when I'd use it for quick clips. Still some might love it.
DPR are at best hit and miss, they missed the ghosting problem in spectacular fashion, and tend to get over excited with new technology and lose judgement overall in favour of that, they did the same for micro 4/3 and completely ignored some very serious banding issues on the G1 etc, not even a mention of it yet rampant in samples images.

Onto Dusty well I'll admit I am a bit out of the loop with Pentax last body I used was a K10d. I've heard AF might be a concern, DK would have a better idea on these things as I'm sure he's used more recent bodies possibly even a K-7 or K-x, in lieu of actually having a hands on with a recent Pentax I'll have to wait until that happens to find out that. Speed is one area, though accuracy is another. The Km5d is no speed demon either but I can get by ok with that, still a valid point about AF. Pentax have other weak areas too whilst the lens range is probably good enough for most, I've little experience on their flash systems, and they lack affordable primes. So weak points there as well. I just feel they are more Minolta ish than Sony. I'm also not interested in fast AF live view thus my disappointment at a compromised viewfinder on the A560580 stronger as it's something I don't really want to take a hit on.

[InTheSky]

WOW hiccup!, returning from holidays, and I have to invest time to follow all the discussion of only one thread .

Probably this question will be for David:

With the new pellicle mirror, is it possible that this is better than sensor for the old lens reflection effect ? I talking aboud old lens like the 50mm 2.8 Macro or even older like the 58mm 1.4 or 1.2 where they are more prone to flare from light reflecting on the sensor (some thing that for now Sony was better than Nikon in the last test of David with old lenses).

So ... I'm interesting to see when it is possible if some one can do the test comparing the A33 with an actual 14mp sensor with the same old lens to see which one is better.

After that, other question is for very wide angle lenses ... is this can be a disadvantage for oriented light on the same pixels photo detector for light on the sensor?

Regards,

Frank

[Greg Beetham]

Tom, when I first heard that Sony was seriously intending to release a camera with a thin fixed sloped transparent-ish mirror fixed in front of the sensor I thought there is going to be some aberrations of some sort, it's unavoidable. I was not surprised that that came to pass, but it was surprising that they weren't as pervasive as I expected, and because it's basically intended for a section of the market that won't subject it too intense clinical examination, the impact/level of the aberrations probably won't matter much, if at all. They do matter to us of course, but that problem is easily avoided. I for one would not be prepared to go over every image with a fine tooth comb chasing down every defect, it's easier to just not get involved with the camera in the first place I think.

Mike there is something not quite right with those res. results, I loose definition on the A55 line pairs a lot sooner than where they have the Nyquist limit, as far as I know those line pairs are to show contrast, and the NEX beats it hands down...easily I think.

I'd agree with what you say Barry...although I'd like to look through the EVF before passing judgement on it for general photography, I really don't like text overlays so if it has those in the EVF it would be a big no no for me. I still have doubts about how useful and practical the camera actually is.
If it is unable to do specific types of photography because of it's design how can it be classed as a real advance in camera design...I guess if it appeals to those who want the high frame rate and video and are not worried about the associated limitations, the high power consumption and a tendancy to overheat if you aren't careful....then I say go for it, whatever floats the old boat.
Greg

[Javelin]

Theres not many cameras that produce no defects at all. your just used to seeing some and not others. I think a defect that only really shows on badly taken photographs and then only at extreme magnification can get a pass don't you? I mean Canon has had trouble with black dots and somone pointed out banding too in there laterst even higher end cameras and they get a pass in fact thats where all the negativites (yes I made that up) wind up going in the end, except Barry he wants a D90 or a pentax or Ricoh or something. I think for the money this is a very or probably the most complete camera there is now. people wanted video whether they knew AF worked on it or not and now there is finally a camera with video that can be used for real.

[bfitzgerald]

If you add anything to the optical path it's going to have some effect on IQ just have a look at the "filter v no filter" debate. So I'm not surprised that there is some loss of resolution and other issues even if minor. I have noticed a reduction in IQ with "some filters" and with better quality ones very hard to spot at all.

I'm sure the EVF is decent but then why is it not a 3:2 aspect ratio like the sensor? And the video options look fairly limited as well. Just a few points I found by digging about. Nothing is perfect but I don't get the VF aspect ratio at all, I'd wager most will shoot 3:2 so why not have that as the native?

On the Pentax stuff I hear a K-5 is due and it's a pro level body something near to the D300s. And a K-r which is said to address some of the niggles on the K-x body (I hope showing AF points in the VF), controls etc. If so then I think temptation will be too much for me on that..also a pal keeps telling me Nikon are going to blow people away very soon. It's entirely possible that after the next batch of rival's releases more traditional photographers will find it easier to move mount

[Dusty]

Barry, the problem with moving mount is always cost.

You've got a good stock of fine lenses, flashes and accessories for the current mount. What can you sell them for? How much will the new lenses and flashes cost? What about bodies? And if you buy used, how long will you have to trade around until you get good copies of the lenses you want?

If you're just starting out, then you pick your poison and go with it.

Even with only one body, for me to switch mounts would be painful. I wouldn't want to buy used for bodies or flashes, so to buy a replacement for my 350, plus an additional body (like I want to do with Sony) and flash, several lenses.... OUCH! It's a no can do situation, even if I'm just buying weird colored Pentax K-x's (cheaper than black).

For someone who has a much larger setup, it would only be possible if they're fairly well to do or making lots of money off of their equipment. Being in business also would let them take it as an expense, greatly lessening the costs, but still forcing a lot of cash layout.

Dusty

[bfitzgerald]

Well the plan is to simply move across bit by bit, hence the reason for keeping the current stuff. I've not completely written Sony off, but the delays on OVF models send the wrong signals to me, and long term I don't feel very comfortable with the direction they are heading in.

Start small build it up so pick up a body (whatever brand you go for) a general purpose lens (I'd say something like a 17-50mm f2.8 would be a decent start) and a flash, lots of options there including third party ones. It could be very costly if you built a complete system including back up body, lots of lenses etc. I know a fair few folks who have and use more than one brand of DSLR.

[peterottaway]

And so rumours about rumours about rumoured Pentax or Nikons are to believed wholeheartedly and Sony cameras that you haven't even used a a pile of rubbish ?

As a long term member of the suck it and see brigade I will wait for real world results (at the same price points). And no unlike DPR I don't expect a USD 650 A33 to perform as well as a USD 5000 Canon. Or for that matter criticise the Canon for having a different menu from the Sony camera.

[Greg Beetham]

No I don't think they are a pile of rubbish, just a camera built for a purpose, and it's purpose is too sell, and it probably will. But it doesn't convince me it is a camera built by photographers FOR photographers first and formost. Good photographers will still be able too use it of course, if they don't mind the limitations, just like DK can use the NEX, and use it well, despite the klutzy interface.
Greg

[mike2008]

Well not every camera is good for everyone.

The debate about whether a camera is for 'photographers' or not seems to be actually a euphemism for 'pixel-peepers' imo, photography has got very little to do with searching at 200% for miniscule abberations in an image. If you're really interested in creative photography such issues would be low down on the list of importance, ease of use, flexibility, and most importantly being happy using the camera are far more important imo.

This will become ever more clear as great shots from the A55 are shown in the forums. Already there are several showing that the camera IQ is not limiting the photographer, rather the other way around (as usual!).

carl has got an a33 and is trying it out, has some reasonably impressive iso6400 shots
http://www.alphamountworld.com/forums/s ... ment-33644

the only real worry i have for the slt's is the long term survivability of the semi-transparent mirror. No one has addressed that fully yet, as it would probably need a potentially destructive test.

[Javelin]

Long term seems to be 3 years before people want to replace them..

[bfitzgerald]

I think the current issue is why Sony feels EVF users or buyers come before OVF ones. Delaying the OVF model in order to ramp production on the A33/55 and NEX models (all of which are completely uninteresting to me) So if folks are saying "Sony are not serious about OVF users" can we guess why that might be??? lol

We can preach all day about market needs and NEX is "cool" if NEX rocks so much why does my ancient 110 film hanimex have better handling?? lol. Some of us are not interested in the uninformed consumer buyer but the informed photographer ones.