A77

[bfitzgerald]

Top reviews? Mainstream? Did I ever say I cared about that..I don't believe I did. Mainstream buyers are not photographers so what they want or buy I couldn't care less about personally. And whilst we are at it some so called review sites are far from great, Cnet for one..complete joke, what digital camera, also hilarious in their reviews. DPR have been on the slide for some time now and the reviewer for the A55 is not one I find very objective..oh and remind me this is the same site that completely missed banding on Pannies G1 series..hard to miss considering how extreme it is.

Back to the needs of photographers, simply put the A33/55 do not meet my needs. You can stuff sweep pano and other bits in all day long, that does not make them appealing for photographers.

[Neonsquare]

@Barry + Dusty
So it's only a bit sensor evolution in the A580 over an A350? You cried for SVA and DOF for so long that you forget it as soon as it really arrives? You always talk about photographers. Photographers don't spend years of their time blaming equipment on internet forums.

If you want to start being photographers again you should stop complaining now and start shooting. It doesn't matter if it is a Minolta, Sony or whatever and you certainly could be a photographer and shoot with an A33/A55.

[stevecim]

I don't post a lot in these forums but I read them everyday, Can we please not turn these forums into DPR forum with comments like this "Put up or shut up." .

I like my A350 and A550, but guess what, I don't think they are any where near perfect and I wished Sony added some software features that I think they should include. I also wished Sony would fix the Black image fault that the A550 has. But Sony seem more interested in selling you a new body then fixing faults.

So far All the models Sony are a great start, but they never quite cross the finish line. with 12 odd low - mid/low models and 3 higher end bodies . Clearly show Sony is not interested in high end DSLRs.

Sony's new A33/A55 are not bad, because they moved some features from PnS to them.
The sad part is sony keep things like Setting ISO min/max , 1/3 ISO steps, MLU for high end cameras then don't release any high end models.

[Dr. Harout]

Relax guys. My son received his a55 just a couple of days ago, so I can clearly understand Barry's comments.
In one word: if the a77 will have an EVF of that sort, I will surely be disappointed.
I will write down my views on the a55 in its proper topic. So in some ways both sides here are exaggerating. Just stay tuned on the a55 topic.

[bakubo]

Relax guys. My son received his a55 just a couple of days ago, so I can clearly understand Barry's comments.
In one word: if the a77 will have an EVF of that sort, I will surely be disappointed.
I will write down my views on the a55 in its proper topic. So in some ways both sides here are exaggerating. Just stay tuned on the a55 topic.

Doc, most people here will enjoy reading your thoughts about the EVF and the A55 in general. Don't visit the other forum though and say anything that isn't glowing about all things Sony though. You are smarter than that though so I don't think you need any warning.

[bfitzgerald]

The other forum consists of a hard core of fans dedicated to "making excuses" for Sony in any way possible. You could say I'm overly critical a badge I have no problems wearing. But the same old "band of brothers" who predictably spend time there dismissing points that others find important, yet again another MLU thread to 150 odd..same excuses and dismissing this valid and useful feature.

If you don't use a feature it might not matter, but when you come to use it and it's not there you miss it. I never really cared much about P shift, but some do and it's absurd Sony can't manage to put that in, or as above give users real bracketing choices of more than 0.7 stop +/-, pretty sad they can't even find a way to put full time ISO in the viewfinder either on their DSLR's, proper NR control on jpegs missing yet again, can't set Auto ISO limits etc.. This niggle list has been around for ages now..

What I don't need is someone to tell me it's about the shooter not the camera, we all know it but that does not mean I'll spend my money on a product from a company too lazy to actually take note of what users want. I too would be interested to hear the Doc's comments...but my position is as before. I'll accept no compromises as a stills camera in order to bring video to DSLR type cameras. If the mass market buys them that's up to them, frankly I don't care one bit.

[mike2008]

Back to the needs of photographers, simply put the A33/55 do not meet my needs. You can stuff sweep pano and other bits in all day long, that does not make them appealing for photographers.

I'm simply saying that you're needs appear to be a really long way from the needs of the vast majority of people buying the A55, A580 etc., and therefore your opinion is not really relevant for anyone apart from yourself. I'm sure you'd happily admit that you are much more demanding than the average entry-mid level camera buyer, surely? So your opinion is really not useful or relevant to those people.

I hope you stick to pentax, and really enjoy it. Though I suspect that the fact it's not a minolta will eventually drive you to distraction with that camera too...

[mike2008]

What I don't need is someone to tell me it's about the shooter not the camera, we all know it but that does not mean I'll spend my money on a product from a company too lazy to actually take note of what users want. I too would be interested to hear the Doc's comments...but my position is as before. I'll accept no compromises as a stills camera in order to bring video to DSLR type cameras. If the mass market buys them that's up to them, frankly I don't care one bit.

Just a little truth control: the A560 and A580 have MLU, DOF-P, a whole series of features of interest to photographers. They also have video. It seems they have made them both more appealing to photographers and video friendly at the same time... There has been no compromise. The impression one gets reading your posts is that they are all terrble cameras with missing functions, when they are the best entry-mid level cameras sony have ever produced.

I don't understand your 'Too lazy' comment... Sony have upgraded the feature set, added video, developed a new sensor, increased fps, improved the AF system on the A580 and created a totally new product line in the SLT. And you think they are lazy? You are very hard to take seriously when your comments differ so much from reality.

[mike2008]

Relax guys. My son received his a55 just a couple of days ago, so I can clearly understand Barry's comments.
In one word: if the a77 will have an EVF of that sort, I will surely be disappointed.
I will write down my views on the a55 in its proper topic. So in some ways both sides here are exaggerating. Just stay tuned on the a55 topic.

Doc, most people here will enjoy reading your thoughts about the EVF and the A55 in general. Don't visit the other forum though and say anything that isn't glowing about all things Sony though. You are smarter than that though so I don't think you need any warning.

The problem on the dpr forum is not a lack of critcism, it was the flood of FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) posts that came with the release of the A55 and it's gold award from dpr. A lot of people didn't like that and tried to smear the camera, exgaggerating effects like ghosting, and unfairly comparing the EVF with the OVF of much more expensive pentaprism cameras like the canon 7D. It was really bad for several weeks. The sad thing was that many of the people spreading the FUD were actually disgrntled A700 users.

If there is a real weakness it gets discussed amciably at dpr. If people are spreading false rumours it riles people up... Not all that surprising, is it? Or different from here.

[mike2008]

Relax guys. My son received his a55 just a couple of days ago, so I can clearly understand Barry's comments.
In one word: if the a77 will have an EVF of that sort, I will surely be disappointed.
I will write down my views on the a55 in its proper topic. So in some ways both sides here are exaggerating. Just stay tuned on the a55 topic.

You're right... IF the A77 EVF is the same it would be a disappointment. But sony have already said it won't be, at photokina. They talked about an upgraded, more 'efficient' EVF for the A77.

I do hope that you are fair in your assessment of the A55 EVF. Many people make the mistake of comparing the A55 EVF with the OVF of a much more expensive camera, simply because it's bigger than most OVF's. You need to assess it exclusively in comparison with the OVF of the 3 and 5 series cameras, not the A700.

[Dr. Harout]

"In its proper topic" meant a topic related to a55 in photoclubalpha, not elsewhere. But I guess David has to create a new section for his "beloved" word-carrying cameras (SLT).

[mike2008]

I'd wager action shooters are a minority among photographers. For other types of shooters... landscape, portrait, macro etc fps is irrelevant to a users needs. I'd also suggest they greatly outnumber action shooters by a wide margin. In short the high fps strategy is targeting a much smaller number of users. If Nikon are happy selling a D7000 with 6fps..I suspect the need for 10fps+ is not a priority among most users. Canon's 5d MkII is a good seller for them..a mere 3.9fps too.

I'd wager that photographers who can't use a camera without p-shift or iso in the viewfinder are a very small minority too... Probably of 1.

[Dusty]

@Barry + Dusty
So it's only a bit sensor evolution in the A580 over an A350? You cried for SVA and DOF for so long that you forget it as soon as it really arrives? You always talk about photographers. Photographers don't spend years of their time blaming equipment on internet forums.

If you want to start being photographers again you should stop complaining now and start shooting. It doesn't matter if it is a Minolta, Sony or whatever and you certainly could be a photographer and shoot with an A33/A55.

Putting features back into the new models is a good thing, but as Barry has said numerous times, it's just putting back in things they took out that were in lessor models. (Note, I'm not big on MLU but do use DOF preview once in a while.)

There's still the missing updates to firmware that will allow 1/3 stop ISO settings, Setting high/lo auto ISO ranges, larger bracketing ranges, etc. Most other makes have these things and Sony is behind the 8 ball in this area.

And they STILL don't have a PC sync socket on any but the 700, 850 and 900 models. COME ON SONY! This is a cheap but sorely needed addition that has been included on almost every SLR for the last 50+ years! There are those of us who have fine and expensive handle mount flash units we would like to use without a kludge mounted on the hot-shoe.

I'm sure I can take fine pictures with an a55, I've taken fine photos with SLRs, rangefinders, TLRs, and view cameras, but I like OVFs and don't want anything else in the way of the light path to my film/sensor.

I think that sensor tech has progressed enough in the last 2 1/2 years that it's worthwhile to purchase a newer model. Originally, the 580 really enthused me because of the rumor of GPS. Since that's not the case, I'm quite as enthused. Consider it the same as getting a new car - it has new features, but you really wanted the tricked out model you saw on the TV, only to find out that's not really available from the dealer. You still want the new car, you're just not quite as excited about it.

Dusty

[bfitzgerald]

I just got a K-x delivered today..too cheap to say no really. All I can say is this..Sony have absolutely nothing to touch it. Yes MLU for a £400 camera, DOF preview, and gasp you can set the ISO limit and customise just about everything add good jpegs and excellent low light..why on earth Sony think their A390 can compete with this..is frankly hilarious to say the least. Much better camera from Pentax and it's a far better choice bang per buck than the feature stripped A5xx models. The new ones look ok, but still are basic. So nope no moaning here..it's got niggles (AF points not lighting up etc) but overall I like it, a lot.

Now why Sony can't make something like that is a mystery. So in response to Mike..no looking back here. Much more a photographers machine than anything near it price wise A mount.

[Greg Beetham]

Yep the thread at dpr on MLU was another dpr classic. A select few there spent pages arguing about some photos/situations that you don't use MLU for anyway...
The DOFP button crops up from time to time also, if you do need to use it you should ideally also be using some means of holding the camera in place as well, it's really only useful for checking DOF and leading edge focus etc. when you suspect there might not be enough depth of focus at the selected f-stop at short focus distances, if you aren't employing a means of holding the camera in position the value of using the DOFP button is doubtful. Maybe tripods have fallen out of favour with a lot of people using late model cameras for some reason, that might be the reason they say over at dpr there is no need for such a button because they don't know when or why you use it, just like MLU... I don't think Sony is interested in or understands macro photography anyway, only a few fuddy duddies do macro, soccer mums don't so nobody needs it.
Greg