α560/α580 are coming

[bfitzgerald]

Greg you put it better than I can.
Unfortunately Mike tends to spend his time telling people how they don't need stuff like P shift (to an A55 users on DPR) even though he wanted it. But possibly not as bad as the guy who went out with his A550 and professional heavy tripod (which you wouldn't want to carry around anyway) with a £1400 70-400mm G in a desperate attempt to prove that you really don't need MLU

Of course you might be able to reduce the effects of mirror vibration by spending the better part of £2000 on a heavy lens and tripod, but it's hardly the most common set up for A550 shooters, thus entirely irrelevant to the discussion, still happened though. Bit like using a blow torch to brush your teeth, yes it likely will remove plaque..you'll probably kill yourself in the process though. Just an example of the "interesting die hard defence" I've seen about certain bits that I call "real photographer stuff". I'm sure Mike dismissed DOF preview and utterly useless too. Thing is not everyone agrees with that..

Useful practical comes first to me..and gimmicks like smile shutters are way down the list..sure bung em in but get the basics right.

[Greg Beetham]

Yep it's strange sometimes over there, the mindset that says that if Sony didn't put it in the camera you don't need it...Sony knows what they are doing so you don't need to worry. Problem is, some people only find out long after they bought the camera that cameras in that model range used to be able to do things that their camera can not do any more.
I saw Olaf stir things up a bit over there once recently, calling one or two of the new models toy cameras...did not go over very well. Actually he made a point (correctly as it stands) that the MLU feature is actually MPF (mirror pre fire) in nearly all the recent KM-Sony cameras that have it, proper MLU is when you flip a lever or press a button and the mirror goes up and stays there until you flip the lever or press the button again, and I think only the A900 might have that.
I guess the new SLT's might be able to do pretty good macro, not having a mirror action at all and having a high magnification preview tilting screen etc. the only concern might be how well they use flash, something about an EVF blackout, but I don't know what happens on the rear screen at that point.
Some were saying in defense of MLU they actually use it while shooting birds at long focal lengths, I guess it's possible to have time to set everything for a shot like that if the bird obligingly sits there long enough, but I have to say I've rarely seen the opportunity to use MLU while shooting birds, but it's really essential at very high magnification work in macro or micro.
Greg

[pakodominguez]

So I'll ask you to discredit any remark or comment about Sony's strategy or specific points such as MLU etc. You cannot argue it's against the users interest to have stuff like this, nor can anyone seriously suggest Sony are doing better "for some users" than Minolta did overall. We can talk market share all day all I care about is xyz product that meets my needs.
Camera users are not baseball caps, one size does not fit all. And that is Sony's biggest mistake..this isn't a walkman or a TV the camera business is not all about mass market gimmicks..

Regardless of how well SLT does, the company does not IMO have the right attitude to secure enthusiast users.

Barry,
Go to the Minolta forum at yahoo groups and read the discussions before the Maxxum 7D was introduced: the only way I know to make enthusiast users feel "secure" is market share and business development. Technology? They are all about the same. If you are not a Canon (big multi-products multinational) or Nikon (small 100% oriented photographic company) user, you better pic a solid company that guarantee your lenses will have a better use than paperweight -even better, Sony give your old paperweight-lens a new life by bringing the NEX system (and working closely with Novoflex, by example, for the necessary adapters)

I just read a JPEA News report on how Canon and Nikon are "increasing the contrast" as strong brand awareness (whatever that really means) while Olympus, Casio and HOYA cut their targets (http://pmanewsline.com)

You don't like Sony attitude? I do like Sony because I can still use my lenses -even my Minolta manual focus lenses.

[pakodominguez]

I think that a580 makes the a560 pointless. The 16mp looks superior.

Well, for some people, the different price tag (100 $ ?) is a point...

[alphaomega]

You don't like Sony attitude? I do like Sony because I can still use my lenses -even my Minolta manual focus lenses.

and pakodominguez even gets SSS into the bargain.
I feel guilty having announced that the A580 has arrived here in UK and I got my hands on one. The VAT refund papers are away and I got an opportunity to take a couple of test shots. The 18-55 looks sharp at 100% (Jpegs). I only used A at 7.1 and adjusted ISO. CA was quite effective in LR3 (converting a RAW file from IDC into LR as 16bits TIFF. Need to do more testing.
Barry goes on with his complaints. I must have seen some of them a hundred times here and DPReview. He castigated me and others for using P some time ago when a real photographer would use A. I switched to A (as I used on my XD7 and X700 SLRs) and I don't miss P shift. I guess you use P instead of Auto if you want to control ISO. DOF is back on A580. So if you need MLU better shift to another make as it may not appear again in a Sony cam. So we are back to looking at what say the A580 can and cannot do and make your decision on that basis. from my perspective (architecture, travel and landscape still photography) all my DSLRs A700, A350, A550 and now A580 will deliver the goods I require and my lenses CZ16-80, Sony 18-250, Tamron 10-24 and 70-300 are equally able to deliver what I need. I may buy the new Tamron 70-300 when available. Barry is not happy. He is moving to Pentax. That is probably the right decision for him. I wish him all success with his Pentax equipment and I trust he will spend some time in the Pentax forum praising their cameras and lenses. He should not forget to mention in his praise that at least the basic sensor is made by Sony. Seems he has purchased a Pentax cam with an upgraded A700 sensor.

[bfitzgerald]

alphaomega you have to consider the needs of others not just yourself. P mode is used by some folks and I personally don't use it very often. That does not mean some folks would not like P shift as it is fairly useful to them. Frankly I don't care myself but some will. As it is you have to move up to an A850 to get P shift..so that feature Sony obviously considers "pro level" despite the fact you can ebay a decade old film 5 and get it for next to nothing!

I've not slammed the A580 just said whilst it's good they addressed some key points MLU, DOF preview, lens release lock. It would have been even better if they had gone further, esp regarding customisation Sony are far far behind other makers in this area (again if this matters down to taste)

No need to praise Pentax they have pros and cons just like any other maker. I think their DSLR line-up is far better than Sony's (they have capable models in 3 price brackets, though the K-5 is a bit pricey) Lens wise it's not as good as Sony esp with more affordable lenses. I had to make a compromise there but once you add third party vendors in it's decent enough for what I might want. Sony actually have mostly a good lens range and some excellent s/h lenses, they problem for me is their bodies are not up to the level I would like. I'd have been delighted if Sony had K-x, K-r and K-6 type models on the market, so would most A mount users.

I'd imagine the A290/390 won't be replaced next year but we'll see on that one I think the A33 might slot down to that price. It's a question of needs and direction. It looks to me like SLT is the way forward for Sony.

[Scooterman]

alphaomega you have to consider the needs of others not just yourself. P mode is used by some folks and I personally don't use it very often. That does not mean some folks would not like P shift as it is fairly useful to them. Frankly I don't care myself but some will. As it is you have to move up to an A850 to get P shift..so that feature Sony obviously considers "pro level" despite the fact you can ebay a decade old film 5 and get it for next to nothing!

I've not slammed the A580 just said whilst it's good they addressed some key points MLU, DOF preview, lens release lock. It would have been even better if they had gone further, esp regarding customisation Sony are far far behind other makers in this area (again if this matters down to taste)

No need to praise Pentax they have pros and cons just like any other maker. I think their DSLR line-up is far better than Sony's (they have capable models in 3 price brackets, though the K-5 is a bit pricey) Lens wise it's not as good as Sony esp with more affordable lenses. I had to make a compromise there but once you add third party vendors in it's decent enough for what I might want. Sony actually have mostly a good lens range and some excellent s/h lenses, they problem for me is their bodies are not up to the level I would like. I'd have been delighted if Sony had K-x, K-r and K-6 type models on the market, so would most A mount users.

I'd imagine the A290/390 won't be replaced next year but we'll see on that one I think the A33 might slot down to that price. It's a question of needs and direction. It looks to me like SLT is the way forward for Sony.

I think you should “Qualify” your statement with is “in my opinion” Barry.

In my opinion, for my kneads and others that by Sony and not other makes they suit my requirements, yes, I would like even more but for the cost the A-550 and A-580 fit the bill also it leaves that bit extra for quality lenses, no camera is any good with out the bits of glass on the front and quality glass costs money.
Regards
Richard

[Neonsquare]

... you have to consider the needs of others not just yourself...

This sounds alien from your mouth. I'm used to hear you generalizing your own needs on all or at least most photographers.

I've not slammed the A580 just said whilst it's good they addressed some key points MLU, DOF preview, lens release lock. It would have been even better if they had gone further, esp regarding customisation Sony are far far behind other makers in this area (again if this matters down to taste)

I agree with you on this point. I think more customisation would be a good idea for the lower range alpha models too. On the other side: It sometimes IS a good thing to lay off old habits and getting trained some new ways and concepts - at least if those new ways and concepts are better. Its a bit like what some of Apples design are like: They sometimes do things very different to what one is used to and do not offer a choice to be conservative - for Apple this often translates in superior products. So even if I want Sony to offer more choice by customisation, I do NOT want them to mindlessly stuff things in.

No need to praise Pentax they have pros and cons just like any other maker. I think their DSLR line-up is far better than Sony's (they have capable models in 3 price brackets, though the K-5 is a bit pricey) Lens wise it's not as good as Sony esp with more affordable lenses. I had to make a compromise there but once you add third party vendors in it's decent enough for what I might want. Sony actually have mostly a good lens range and some excellent s/h lenses, they problem for me is their bodies are not up to the level I would like. I'd have been delighted if Sony had K-x, K-r and K-6 type models on the market, so would most A mount users.

Thats the Barry I know - you personally found Pentax' line-up more suitable for your needs and therefore most A mount users would be delighted. I think most people hate fanboys but they also hate anti-fanboys.

I'd imagine the A290/390 won't be replaced next year but we'll see on that one I think the A33 might slot down to that price. It's a question of needs and direction. It looks to me like SLT is the way forward for Sony.

Sony has a good line-up in the lower price segments. For next year I want them to show some higher priced models and hopefully update their line-up on lenses too.

[Mark K]

Has any noticed the weight difference between A560 and A580? A580 weighs approximately the same as my old A700 but A560 is about 180gm lighter.

[alphaomega]

Mark K wrote

Has any noticed the weight difference between A560 and A580? A580 weighs approximately the same as my old A700 but A560 is about 180gm lighter.

These weights are straight from Sony's Instruction Manuals and without battery and cards:
A700 690 g.
A560 and A580 are both listed with same weight of 599 g.

I have not put my copies on scales, but I would say there is no way the A580 can be as heavy as the A700 unless you add the battery to the A580 only.

[David Kilpatrick]

580 now shipping to me through the wind the rain and the snow!

David

[Scooterman]

I'm sure you will love the A-580 David.
Richard

[pakodominguez]

580 now shipping to me through the wind the rain and the snow!

David

Santa's early delivery services?

[alphaomega]

580 now shipping to me through the wind the rain and the snow!

I look forward to hearing from David Kilpatrick in due course how he gets round the problem of Adobe not having added A560/580 RAW to LR3 and ACR. I wonder why this is as D7000 is now supported in release candidate 6.3 as well as A55 fully released previously. Interestingly enough Pentax K5 is not listed in release candidate 6.3. It could be some time before we see A560/580 in ACR & LR3.

[KevinBarrett]

I'm especially interested in your assessment of the a580 now that you've already confessed an appreciation of the a55.