SLT a55

[bfitzgerald]

Well Barry you do make a few good points about the A580. The problem is if it includes to many features then what can differentiate it from the advanced amateur A7X A7XX we hope to see at some point soon? This is a business Sony is running so they do need to maximise their profits and differentiate their product line.

We've been over this before! But I'll say a few things just to clear them up.
Different makers have their own take on this I believe Sony are following the "Nikon approach" in other words keep the lower end bodies with reduced functionality and leave out stuff like MLU, DOF preview but put live view etc in there. I think they come unstuck by going a bit OTT on that side (cmon no bracketing is a silly oversight on any DSLR) Canon are not as bad ie they have the basic stuff there mostly, but they did hobble the EOS1000d with a slower fps for raw. I think Pentax are the least crippled out of all the makers.

I'll just say this I think you can make products with more that cost more without ripping out some important areas or trying to upsell by feature crippling. I'd look at a K-r because it offers a bit more (all relative but you get more) and the K-5 in some ways offers quite a bit more (weather sealing even more beefed up spec/features) So by buying a lower end body I don't think they're making a mistake in that approach.

I wiped Nikon off my list not because I don't like their stuff, but at the level I would be looking at (D90) their replacement is up to £1000 now and I've doubts the D5000 update will be non crippled. I just find it very unappealing for a company to omit very basic stuff so I won't buy their products. As Sony follow Nikon (or have in some ways) I get the same result.

You can easily make products appealing without taking out so much stuff they become too basic. You pay more for a bigger buffer, a better VF, more on body controls, weather/dust sealing), more robust build, better AF performance etc. That alone is enough to work in the market.

[pakodominguez]

Carl's website? well, I think he realize long time ago that he will never have the free camera. He also realized too late that Sony (Minolta either, BTW) doesn't really listen to the "outsiders" and he took it personally... Whatever.

Pako,

Just to clear up your apparent confusion. I don't need free cameras and never wanted any, too easy to be influenced that way. And Sony does listen to feedback. When you review cameras and deal with these companies on a one on one basis, perhaps then you'll realize that.

C

I think, Carl, you miss the metaphor -and probably your sens of humor.

In other hand, people that got the real (and metaphoric) free camera, the Sony Artisans, did it because they believe in the system, not just because the free camera. And the Mom - Pop bloggers that also got the (less expensive) real free camera are a public that move with the wind, in order to make them talk about the Camera, Sony needs to give more than just the camera.

Regards

[pakodominguez]

Maybe you should stick to your own website?

No need to be rude. If you don't like AWM, don't go over there, but why will you proscript Carl in this forum?

[bfitzgerald]

The Sony Artisans are not worth a can of beans in the greater scheme of things. Oh I got a load of free stuff so now write about it..shocking as if this is going to be convincing. I like the views of folks who actually buy the stuff themselves not get hand outs from makers to say nice things.

And no I didn't buy an Olympus in the 80's because David Bailey was on TV adverts or Patrick Lichfield liked them. But the truth is both of those are/were serious fire power photographers in a way that none of the Sony artisans are. At least Olympus got a top dog photographer I'll have to give them that. Still changes nothing of my view of sponsored photographers..

[pakodominguez]

I'd rather a more picky and critical review than a "Gold Award" DPR let's be nice to it review. Some glaring points missed as well I don't see a con for overheating in DPR's review. They pulled their punches on that one.

Or probably it is a average problem with video DSRL/SLT or probably they never encounter the problem. My NEX5 got too hot the second time I used the video function. After that, I just pull the screen from the body in order to cool the back of the camera a little bit and no more problems since then.

[pakodominguez]

The Sony Artisans are not worth a can of beans in the greater scheme of things. Oh I got a load of free stuff so now write about it..shocking as if this is going to be convincing. I like the views of folks who actually buy the stuff themselves not get hand outs from makers to say nice things.

And no I didn't buy an Olympus in the 80's because David Bailey was on TV adverts or Patrick Lichfield liked them. But the truth is both of those are/were serious fire power photographers in a way that none of the Sony artisans are. At least Olympus got a top dog photographer I'll have to give them that. Still changes nothing of my view of sponsored photographers..

Barry, you are talking about Pulitzer winners, National Geographic regulars and High End portrait and wedding photographers, that probably you don't know -but that don't make them less than a can of beans.

I have no idea of who David Bailey is/was and I won't bother to google him now. The point is, those adds were a UK thing? an European thing? in the 80s the world was wider and estrange. In 2010 the world is smaller and clear and information way more accessible -that is why I'm surprised how provincial some people are...

[bakubo]

Is this no longer a moderated forum?

[bfitzgerald]

Barry, you are talking about Pulitzer winners, National Geographic regulars and High End portrait and wedding photographers, that probably you don't know -but that don't make them less than a can of beans.

I'm not talking about talent I'm simply saying I find the entire "so called celebrity product endorsement" marketing ploy as cheesy, outdated and contrived. An opinion that is paid for is not worth having. Let them come here and talk when they have no financial incentives to do so. Same for any product or celebrity..I'd wager Bailey is a lot better known than any of the others even outside the UK and Europe.

Pako do you really honestly expect me to take this seriously?:

http://www.merakoh.com/2009/05/18/annou ... -and-pink/

I could spend hours pulling some hilarious comments off that blog it's the best laugh I've had for years!

[David Kilpatrick]

This forum is moderated only to the extent that if this thread gets any more repetitive and boring, no-one will be reading the forum at all, so I might move it to a special area called 'circular arguments from intransigent opponents'.

No other maker currently offers the sheer variety of camera choices Sony has ended up with, even if some appear to be no longer in active production, just in the retail chain. In the past Olympus came close to this with their range of different viewing methods and body designs. It did not seem to work for them, but seems to be working better for Sony. The SLT design is one choice out of many.

David

[pakodominguez]

Barry, you are talking about Pulitzer winners, National Geographic regulars and High End portrait and wedding photographers, that probably you don't know -but that don't make them less than a can of beans.

I'm not talking about talent I'm simply saying I find the entire "so called celebrity product endorsement" marketing ploy as cheesy, outdated and contrived. An opinion that is paid for is not worth having. Let them come here and talk when they have no financial incentives to do so. Same for any product or celebrity..I'd wager Bailey is a lot better known than any of the others even outside the UK and Europe.

English is not even my second language but my third. So probably I don't fully get all the nuances of what you said. but even then, it doesn't sound right or respectful...

Pako do you really honestly expect me to take this seriously?:

http://www.merakoh.com/2009/05/18/annou ... -and-pink/

I could spend hours pulling some hilarious comments off that blog it's the best laugh I've had for years!

Me Ra Ko is very successful not just because she is a great photographer, but because she knows how to talk to her target. And let me tell you something: that lady make way more money than you and me, doing what she does. And that before Sony endorsed her. She works for a market that love that kind of communication. You are a serious British guy that will never get into this fashion (she will probably never make it in Europe or Latin America) -I've been living 7 years here in NYC and it is still hard for me to understand the American's codes (I'm not talking about language).

This kind of endorsement are 100% marketing. But I'm 100% sure the photographers who accept that endorsement believe they can achieve what their high standards demand using Sony Alpha products.

[bfitzgerald]

I'll move away from the cash for opinions aspect (as I think my views are clear on that)
I can pick on one very very obvious point to make with her blog post leaving aside the OTT super excitement factor.
The new newbie sliding scale is flawed in very obvious ways and does absolutely nothing to help users understand the relationship of aperture/shutter speeds.

DOF is very closely related to a number of factors including focal length and distance to subject (just 2 variables that influence/can cancel out each other) The scale for DOF is deeply misleading indicating "blur" to the left at faster apertures and "sharp" to the right. Take a shot at 18mm at faster apertures focusing on a distant subject (which you'd tend to do with scenic shots) That indicates blur when in reality it's got a larger DOF. Take a close up shot of something and you could put the scale to sharp (smaller apertures) and still have a narrow DOF present in the image, worse it might actually encourage users to move the scale right down to the smallest aperture to make the image sharp, yet they'll have major diffraction problems and nice soft images!

That's just one point on that one..I'm no DOF expert but I know enough to see how the newbie scale won't be of much use to anyone. Nice try but it does not help probably confuses the issue even more. Funny to see no major posts about the A290 after Sony dumped the "girl friendly grip design" very odd eh?

Onto DK, I believe the entire problem with Sony has been releasing too many products that are not targeted properly and are not distinct enough to offer the variety you say they have. As a long term Minolta user I'm honestly a little puzzled as to why you take this line. It's a bit like photography really 100 poor shots are worth nothing over one good one. Quantity does not replace quality.

[David Kilpatrick]

Barry, after the 9xi and the 7xi despite being the director of a very active (by today's standards) Minolta Club I never bought another SLR. I had the 600si, 800si, 7, 9, 5, 3, 4, 40, 60... all the models to test. Not one of them offered me any function over and above the performance of the 9xi, which I actually needed or wanted. I did not keep any of them on loan, and actually stopped using SLRs at all for a period, preferring the CLE system (when it was nearly 20 years old).

The big difference now is that I find I actually WANT each new Sony generation with a few notable exceptions like the A290/390, which I know are current and selling but offer nothing of interest. The A55 and A580, in contrast, are must-haves for their own reasons as was the NEX-5. Not only that, but in the past one model would have done everything. Now I actually want two or three different models for different reasons. In the past, I also wanted different cameras, but they were not all Minolta - I had my Horizont for panoramics, my Contax T2 for ultra-quality pocketability, my Fuji GS645 for 'high megapixel count full frame', my Canon video camera kit, even my Stereo Iloca and Stereo Graphic for shooting 3D, and so on.

Even a year ago, I had a Nikon D5000 and a Canon 400D. Though I rationalised owning these as needing to use other systems, actually I wanted the video and live view functions of the Nikon, and the quiet shutter with good high ISO of the Canon for gigs.

Now I no longer have Nikon or Canon. The various models in the Sony range - all fitting my entire lens collection in one way or another - fit all the slots from pocket walkabout camera, to video camera, to ultra-quiet low light camera; I've got my high speed shooting, my 'large format' in the A900, my articulated screen, my panoramics, my 3D.

OK, it is not all contained in a single camera which does everything but IT NEVER HAS BEEN. Minolta never offered me a set of cameras with such well-defined distinct functions and benefits, so I never bought their gear, instead I had all sorts of other cameras to fill the gaps. Now Sony fills all the gaps, in a set of four cameras - A900, A580, A55, NEX-5.

David

[TomB]

I bought a A55V body two weeks ago. When I compare it to my old A350, I’m very satisfied. I just briefly describe my observations:

Switching on is surprisingly fast for an EVF. The switch position silly copies Nikons and it takes place for the wheel so I'm learning to control it with my middle finger. Sleeping camera can be woken up by the shutter, movie, menu and play buttons only – this is better than by A350 which reacts on every detectable touch.

The wheel can’t be selected for A or S priority in M and P mode. P shift doesn’t work but I never use it.

Pictures taken by A55 are about 0.3 EV brighter than by A350 using the same exposure. Colours are slightly shifted.

I don’t miss an optical viewfinder, maybe just for lower power consumption. The grid and electronic level are great aids. The FINDER/LCD button is almost useless thanks to the viewfinder sensor. The rotating display is perfect, I usually keep it closed and safe.

The A55 is my first camera where I can really precisely manually focus fast lenses. I only complain that it is impossible quickly get the magnifier selection back to the center (e.g. by holding the AF button) and that it doesn’t follow the manually selected focus point.

BTW now I found out why I sometimes get un-sharp landscape pictures from my 16-105 at 16 mm. The “infinity” position has a very tight stop so it is not possible to focus “behind” infinity. Sometimes it doesn’t get far enough, I have to knock on the lens or jerk with the focus ring to get a proper focus.

Focusing is slightly faster and more precise. There are too many focusing points for me. They are good for the wide focus area with face detection and for movies. For manual focus point selection was better the old 9-point system, now I have to push buttons 2-4 times instead of one push with direct focusing. It is not obvious which points are the cross-type and what direction have the simple points. I’m not used to such a high continuous advance speed so I’m glad that I can switch back to “lo” for most situations and save card space and writing time.

The ability to take movies using viewfinder and with AF was important for me when I decided between A55 and A580. Focusing with non-SSM lenses is naturally slower to suppress the focusing noise. Unfortunately the focus hold button doesn’t work in the movie mode and there is no way to hold exposure either. However, the movie quality is superb.

Picture playback is sad to say much dumber. It doesn’t reflect the selected focus point when zooming in. It is not possible to select or delete folders in picture index view; you have to go to the menu. It is not possible to hide the on screen help (a dedicated Display button is missing). Switching between playback and live view takes much time – nearly 1 second.

I didn’t explore the scene modes and other features thoroughly. Sweep panorama works well especially with the level. The help guide is maybe good for beginners and happily it can be switched off. The GPS doesn’t show much information (no position, number of satellites, accuracy) and it gets the actual position relatively slowly even when using the GPS assist data. I prefer using track log data from my Garmin GPS for geotagging.

Conclusion: even if I complain about many things I’m very happy with the A55. I can hold and operate it comfortably, the flash is high enough and first of all the pictures and movies it makes are excellent.

[tom power 53]

Nice to see this camera working well for you. Seems it will for many people.

I am hoping for the a77/A750 variant next year which likely will solve some of your items. Seems that it should.

My A700 is still a great camera but I am looking for some of the newer features and better high ISO performance along with a more A700/850/900 type control/UI.

[Greg Beetham]

This forum is moderated only to the extent that if this thread gets any more repetitive and boring, no-one will be reading the forum at all, so I might move it to a special area called 'circular arguments from intransigent opponents'.
David

What a great idea, we could have an 'arguments' forum...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM
Greg