A700 replacement 2011 25MP...

[Greg Beetham]

This http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutori ... r-size.htm and this http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutori ... graphy.htm explains the relationships of pixel density and lenses per format size at a given f-stop, the whole thing is rather malleable, especially since the advances in sensor tech has probably outstripped the info in the article a little by now anyway, with the sensels now much closer to each other.
Greg

[pakodominguez]

So a Sony A750 with 25Mp will probably not outperform Sony's CZ or G lenses. Pity the person who could only afford kit lenses for such a camera. That would be a waste of camera money.

I won't be surprised if the (new) kit lens 18-55 is able to resolve those 25 MP (even if I don't think we'll see 25 MP sensor this year, not because Sony can not produce it, but because I don't think they can produce that cheap -who said less than 1000?- the rest of the components...)

I won't be surprised either if the 'easy choice' lenses resolve 25 or more MP.

Regards

[alphaomega]

Reference my "challenge" above for one of the technically savvy members to work out LX3 sensor up-scaled to APS-C. Found some details here http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossar ... zes_01.htm
No mention of 1/1.63 but there is a 1/1.7 size mentioned. A rough calculation
1/1.7 sensor 7.6x5.7mm equals 43.32mm sq.
APS-C sensor 23.7x15.7mm equals 372.09mm sq.
Divide 43.32 into 372.09 equals 8.6
Multiply 11,300,000 pixels with 8.6 and we arrive at a 97Mp sensor near enough. Now the LX3 has a larger 1/1.63 sensor so the up-scaled size would probably be nearer 90Mp, but I think the point is made that Leica's 24-60 (35mm equivalent) zoom on LX3 could match a 90Mp APS-C sensor for resolution and sharpness.
I have always wondered about the performance of these Leica lenses on Pana's top P&S cameras. I am convinced that sensors have a long way to go growing in size before they embarrass the very best lenses and that would include CZ and G lenses.

[agorabasta]

A funny thought - if they finally make an 'a77' with all the possible bells&whistles, why not make it an 'a99'???

The problems of using an a850/900 in an APS mode are:
1. it's bigger/heavier
2. APS crop area is too small in the OVF
3. no on-board flash

All these problems do not translate into an 'a99' at all.

The camera would be smaller/lighter due to simpler design (less parts), easily fitting into the a700 size/weight limits or below that.
That EVF may simply have different magnification in APS/FF modes.
There's no huge pentaprism to interfere with on-board flash.

An 'a99' makes much more sense than an 'a77'. And more sense yet makes a pair of a99+a77 sharing all the same basic parts but the sensor assy.

[David Kilpatrick]

It's more likely they will stick with the SLT design for APS-C, and may at some future introduce a zoom lens which can only be used with the SLT bodies. Canon gained a small design advantage when they introduced the EF-S mount, which makes use of the smaller mirror movement of their 1.6X factor bodies to allow the rear element of the lens to be closer to the sensor. This is not, in itself, a desirable thing but it gives freedom to design zooms with a bit more scope to improve quality. Canon of course did not, they produced mainly cheap lenses in EF-S fittings and continue to.

The SLT design allows the rear of the lens to be even further into the camera - not as much as a rangefinder lens, but probably one full cm closer to the sensor than a normal Alpha lens. This could open the way for a true pancake lens (front only say 5mm thick beyond the lens mount) with a specification like 28mm f/2.8, or for an 8-16mm zoom much smaller than Sigma's design and perhaps with better optical quality. That would be difficult as the Sigma is bitingly sharp, in fact using the Sigma on the A55 was one of the things which made me realise just how very detailed the SLT images can be.

Certainly, if you have an SLT body and the ability to make adaptors, there are now some vintage lenses which could be adapted to fit SLT and could never be used on a regular SLR.

David

[Greg Beetham]

Well I for one have extreme doubts that I will want/need a camera like an A77. I don't see why I should have to waste battery power just to look and frame something, you can't see through a micky mouse EVF with it's printing overlays until you actually turn the camera on. Why should we have that situation without any alternative choice? it doesn't make sense to me.
And there is no guarantee that the artifacts will be got rid of in the A77 camera, as far as I'm concerned if you put a sloped element in the light path, no matter how good it is there are going to be aberrations of some sort...sometime. I don't know how many people there are out there who would like an updated 7 series would be happy with a camera that can't take a photo anytime anywhere that is guaranteed to be artifact free. Obviously going by the reaction over at dpr there are quite a few who don't care if a camera takes a photo with the possibility of invented stuff in it, but there are also a few who don't, you can count me in as a don't also.
Greg

[agorabasta]

Greg, but what if they let the mirror move out of the light path whenever necessary?
What if they use a very low-power LED EVF?

Those developments seem very possible and natural...

[Greg Beetham]

Ok I know you can get red green and blue LED's, but nano sized LED's displaying 32 bit colour gradient and shading..hmm I'll believe that when I see it, and what about the latency and the real time graphics interface that still consumes unnecessary power. Actually I'm ok with any A77 camera with whatever is in it really, LV, Video, EVF, short battery life whatever, as long as I can choose to buy an A750 instead.
An A750 that is in it's design what a DSLR is supposed to be, a dedicated STILL taking camer, that was what the SLR was supposed to be in the first place, not a half baked video camera that overheats with a short battery life that can take stills on the side with the possibility of artifacts sometime.
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

Greg if I were a gambling man (which I'm not!) I'd say Sony have very little intention of producing an OVF A700 type camera. It appears they are SLT all the way (like it or lump it as we say) I'm convinced about this every statement from the company clearly indicates this. I'd say even the A580 might be the last of the OVF DSLR's from the company. They might replace the bottom entry ones with a cheaper EVF/SLT design. The only hold out point appears FF DSLR's.

That's why I walked away from Sony and I'm suggesting folks who are looking for OVF DSLR's are in for a big disappointment. It's a dangerous gamble esp at the A700 level. How many are complaining about the 7d/D7000/K5 OVF? Not many..

[OneGuyKs]

Great advice. If you are unhappy with EVF,, move to 7D, D7000, K-5. It's that simple. Too bad bfitzgerald claims to have moved but is still stuck on Sony forum whining about it.

[mike2008]

Well I for one have extreme doubts that I will want/need a camera like an A77. I don't see why I should have to waste battery power just to look and frame something, you can't see through a micky mouse EVF with it's printing overlays until you actually turn the camera on. Why should we have that situation without any alternative choice? it doesn't make sense to me.
And there is no guarantee that the artifacts will be got rid of in the A77 camera, as far as I'm concerned if you put a sloped element in the light path, no matter how good it is there are going to be aberrations of some sort...sometime. I don't know how many people there are out there who would like an updated 7 series would be happy with a camera that can't take a photo anytime anywhere that is guaranteed to be artifact free. Obviously going by the reaction over at dpr there are quite a few who don't care if a camera takes a photo with the possibility of invented stuff in it, but there are also a few who don't, you can count me in as a don't also.
Greg

Have you ever looked through a nikon OVF when the camera is turned off. Looks very dark because the aperture is closed down.

I guess thinks like lens aberrations, internal reflections in the mirror box and double reflections from filters simply don't affect your images. You're a lucky guy. Or maybe simply a little ignorant of the limitations and undesirable features inherent in any imaging system. By the way don't diss people at dpr so casually, I know it makes you feel good but it makes you look like a bit of a fool, to be honest.

[mike2008]

Ok I know you can get red green and blue LED's, but nano sized LED's displaying 32 bit colour gradient and shading..hmm I'll believe that when I see it, and what about the latency and the real time graphics interface that still consumes unnecessary power. Actually I'm ok with any A77 camera with whatever is in it really, LV, Video, EVF, short battery life whatever, as long as I can choose to buy an A750 instead.
An A750 that is in it's design what a DSLR is supposed to be, a dedicated STILL taking camer, that was what the SLR was supposed to be in the first place, not a half baked video camera that overheats with a short battery life that can take stills on the side with the possibility of artifacts sometime.
Greg

How can a motor replace a horse for crying out loud. A horse and cart is how man was meant to travel. Plus at high speeds you can't breathe.

[mike2008]

Greg if I were a gambling man (which I'm not!) I'd say Sony have very little intention of producing an OVF A700 type camera. It appears they are SLT all the way (like it or lump it as we say) I'm convinced about this every statement from the company clearly indicates this. I'd say even the A580 might be the last of the OVF DSLR's from the company. They might replace the bottom entry ones with a cheaper EVF/SLT design. The only hold out point appears FF DSLR's.

That's why I walked away from Sony and I'm suggesting folks who are looking for OVF DSLR's are in for a big disappointment. It's a dangerous gamble esp at the A700 level. How many are complaining about the 7d/D7000/K5 OVF? Not many..

Wow, stop the presses.

[Greg Beetham]

Baz if Sony thinks that we will all just go buy a FF DSLR if they don't bother to make a proper APS-C one they are living in denial. Who is going to outfit themselves with the HQ lenses that you need to even consider FF in lieu of APS-C? only the well heeled I'm sure would get any benefit from that market strategy. I really don't, and never have seen that argument as being worth a plugged nickel...that people can just go and buy a FF camera, the whole kit is going to be much heavier and oodles more expensive than an APS-C camera outfit by the time one gets all the lenses to actually take better images than a good APS-C camera.
Actually I haven't bougt a single Sony lens, because of numerous reasons, (Macro flash debacle brought to us by Sony is one), one of the other reasons is Sony aren't consistant, one never knows what is going to be a dead end in 6 months or not so why would anyone risk investing in Sony gear...going by the discussions over at dpr there are quite a few in the same frame of mind.
The bottom line = lost sales for Sony.
Greg

[Greg Beetham]

How can a motor replace a horse for crying out loud. A horse and cart is how man was meant to travel. Plus at high speeds you can't breathe.

Ha ha good one mike2008, this discussion is about choice of whether one wants a horse and cart, or not, they way it is now you can choose among a couple of carts only.
Greg