A700 replacement 2011 25MP...

[bfitzgerald]

They have not really tried that hard over the years some good moments spoiled with some obvious and silly mistakes. The A700 was a taste of what might have come alone but they just left it out there to die in the market.
What Mike does not grasp is that some users actually do not like using EVF's or don't like the SLT (which does have some compromises)
If I don't like Pizza you can throw it at me all day I won't eat it. If Sony don't make an OVF DSLR update to the A700 (and I highly doubt they will) They will lose users of that there is absolutely no question.

And their current best APS-C offering with an OVF an astonishing 0.80x mag VF with 95% coverage, yes that's actually worse than my 2005 KM DSLR, this is trying is it???

Anyone wanting an OVF and not sploshing out for a FF DSLR on A mount time to depart very shortly!

[alphaomega]

Which makes me wonder how hard they tried to make a great DSLR, they have made some good ones sure, but not an outstanding bug free one with all the working features that a great one should have.
Greg

Greg, here is the assurance from noboby else than "Tiger" that Sony are doing their damnest to produce a "do all and beat all" enthusiast camera.

'There has been a lot of discussion about what an Alpha DSLR should be. We've been focusing for some time on utilizing our unique technologies. The translucent mirror is one and it performs very well. We want the A700 replacement to be in line with that kind of step forward, we want it to be superior to its competitors, that's why we couldn't make it sooner,' he said. But, he assured us, the results will be worth waiting for: 'With the A33 and 55 we tried to look at the problem and get rid of some of the old hassles - the A700 successor should be like that.'

Shame you won't like it because it will be of the SLT variety. I really do think that the time has come for the "died in the wool" DSLR enthusiasts to consider their position before they invest a penny more in Sony equipment. Barry Fitzgerald has sensibly made the first tentative steps with his foray into Pentax. Personally I reckon my A580 will be my last DSLR. With my age my quartet of A350/550/580 and 700 will see me through and my focus will be on NEX. I will probably buy another NEX when one makes an appearance with EVF added. I will buy a couple of NEX lenses as they appear and that will be me. I think the time has come for all and sundry to consider their position and stay with Sony and NEX/SLT future or jump ship now before more mony has been committed. Complaining here will not alter the basic situation that decision time has arrived.

[agorabasta]

Greg,

Once again, an SLT with a mirror that can slide flat aside whenever necessary is very possible; and hi-res low-power OLED displays already are the reality.
We have to vote for the inclusion of that tech into future SLTs just because the SLTs are not robbing us of traditional designs, they are adding to them.

I have no problem buying a Canon DSLR if and when I need it, to me it's absolutely no problem to add a new non-Sony system. (Nikon and Pentax are ruled out due to wrong colour reproduction, and Canon has finally learned to do it right.) But by the time Canon has a suitable new sensor tech developed, those SLTs and NEXes have a great chance to have developed well beyond their current state.

Still I think the real future is with the NEX. The problem to solve about them is in getting enough computing power into camera body so that CDAF could work as fast as PDAF. And it's only the computing power and sensor readout speed that are limiting the CDAF speed now. (Sony sensors' readout speeds have been doubling every recent year, btw...)

[Greg Beetham]

The NEX with a more DSLR orintated interface sounds interesting indeed, personally I would consider it to be a compact camera and wouldn't really want large heavy wide/long lenses to use with it, I would therefor not need an EVF either. So on that front Sony has my blessing for what it's worth, I just wonder why they didn't do that right from the start.
And as far as the 7 series SLT goes, I might end up liking it anyway if they do a good job on it. They would have to solve the heat problem, (I myself wouldn't encounter that much because I'm not really interested in video), but they would need to address it for those that do, and the battery longevity problem, many pro SLTers say there isn't any problem with the battery life, but to me there is, there is no way that an SLT would last as long as my KM5D away on a trip in the wilderness for an extended period, not in their wildest dreams it would. So if they come out with a low power drain EVF that increases the endurance it might be a potential camera for out in the backblocks, either that or make bigger batteries that last a lot longer.
If they can do that I can see it would make potentially a very good camera for quite a lot of uses, but maybe not everything.
Greg

ps. I see agorabasta has been busy.....

[Greg Beetham]

Greg,

Once again, an SLT with a mirror that can slide flat aside whenever necessary is very possible; and hi-res low-power OLED displays already are the reality.
We have to vote for the inclusion of that tech into future SLTs just because the SLTs are not robbing us of traditional designs, they are adding to them.

I have no problem buying a Canon DSLR if and when I need it, to me it's absolutely no problem to add a new non-Sony system. (Nikon and Pentax are ruled out due to wrong colour reproduction, and Canon has finally learned to do it right.) But by the time Canon has a suitable new sensor tech developed, those SLTs and NEXes have a great chance to have developed well beyond their current state.

Still I think the real future is with the NEX. The problem to solve about them is in getting enough computing power into camera body so that CDAF could work as fast as PDAF. And it's only the computing power and sensor readout speed that are limiting the CDAF speed now. (Sony sensors' readout speeds have been doubling every recent year, btw...)

Yep if they can have a mirror flip up switch/lever for astrophotography that would eliminate the artifact problem for sure, (but will they DO that), and yes Sony is on a roll with sensors, or the camera integration of them. Sony needed to raise the readout speed for all those large MP & high frame rates they wanted to get involved with, and they obviously have done a good job there as well. Computing power is another serious battery consumer, truth be known that the GPU could now be one of the biggest power users and heat output sources in these modern cameras, processing all those huge files at a high speed.
Greg

[mike2008]

They have not really tried that hard over the years some good moments spoiled with some obvious and silly mistakes. The A700 was a taste of what might have come alone but they just left it out there to die in the market.
What Mike does not grasp is that some users actually do not like using EVF's or don't like the SLT (which does have some compromises)
If I don't like Pizza you can throw it at me all day I won't eat it. If Sony don't make an OVF DSLR update to the A700 (and I highly doubt they will) They will lose users of that there is absolutely no question.

And their current best APS-C offering with an OVF an astonishing 0.80x mag VF with 95% coverage, yes that's actually worse than my 2005 KM DSLR, this is trying is it???

Anyone wanting an OVF and not sploshing out for a FF DSLR on A mount time to depart very shortly!

Actually I see very clearly that many are put off by the idea of an EVF. Many of these change their minds upon use of the current EVF tech, v2.0 will be further improved, and v3.0 ought to be better in many respects than OVF's. OVF's are a dead end. EVF's are not.

A700 failed because canikon are too strong to compete with in DSLR. You would need a super cheap better specced camera, and it would not make economic sense. So change the game, lose some users, no question... But gain a helluva lot more new ones who are less rigid about tradition.

[Greg Beetham]

I don't think the A700 was a failure, it could have been more successful than it was that's for sure, if Sony had had the close relationship with DxO back then they do now the A700 could have been a much bigger success.
Greg

ps. Remind me again agorabasta, why did we need CDAF anyway, I know there was a reason but I sort of disremember exactly why, just for the NEX I think, was that it?
And btw mike2008 when did I diss anyone over at dpr?

[bfitzgerald]

And those new users are a lot less likely to spend in the same way as the "traditional ones" obviously I'm not talking about myself here

OVF's are dead considering the top selling cameras are OVF that's a hugely bold statement to make. Personally I think Greg would get along just fine with another maker, and Walt too. But it would be a lot easier to simply have an OVF A700 replacement to appeal to users who want it. No choice isn't a good thing for anyone. I'm afraid I never bought into the argument that we should all be using EVF's it's going to be a long wait to get a really really good one..meantime other makers are struggling to keep production lines up to demand for OVF models.

[agorabasta]

a700 failed due to poor data processing in the earlier firmwares and also due to absence of good raw-developing software.

Now I see that with Lr3 the a700 is better than a55 all the way till ISO1600, and then above that results may vary depending on WB, ambient temps, etc. The a55 has a clear advantage at AF precision and at matrix metering. And there's an obvious 16/12Mp difference. That's about it.

[agorabasta]

Greg, we need CDAF exactly for the Nex-like systems. And the CDAF may be more precise than PDAF under certain conditions.

[Greg Beetham]

I think you are right there Barry, the new users might not get into buying lots of accessory items, lenses etc. it might just turn out that it's a must have oddment for a lot of them....for now, and that's it, no more new bodies for a lot of them either, so the new direction itself might turn out to be a dead end in a few years....then what, Oh, I know, we'll make a proper DSLR again for those pre-historic people, they'll buy it for sure....hmmm what pre-historic people, by then there might not be any left.
Greg

ps. Sony REALLY should have had the bugs ironed out in the A700 before they released it, it was too important a camera to do otherwise, it's yet another example of Sony not doing a complete job, and damaging themselves in the process.

Yeah agorabasta I thought so, I sortof disregarded the NEX shortly after I found out how the user interface was organized, I couldn't understand it basically so I let it slide.

[mike2008]

I think you are right there Barry, the new users might not get into buying lots of accessory items, lenses etc. it might just turn out that it's a must have oddment for a lot of them....for now, and that's it, no more new bodies for a lot of them either, so the new direction itself might turn out to be a dead end in a few years....then what, Oh, I know, we'll make a proper DSLR again for those pre-historic people, they'll buy it for sure....hmmm what pre-historic people, by then there might not be any left.
Greg

ps. Sony REALLY should have had the bugs ironed out in the A700 before they released it, it was too important a camera to do otherwise, it's yet another example of Sony not doing a complete job, and damaging themselves in the process.

Yeah agorabasta I thought so, I sortof disregarded the NEX shortly after I found out how the user interface was organized, I couldn't understand it basically so I let it slide.

There's some irony in Greg and Barry, two of the most tight-fisted (when it come to buying sony gear) posters here by all accounts, pontificating on what will sell well in the future...

[bfitzgerald]

IR have a nice Sony interview up..have a look.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1294806676.html

Interesting he says a "few" on forums didn't like it (translucent)

Onto being tight fisted I simply didn't have enough confidence in Sony to actually want to commit any serious outlay on lenses etc. So I acquired some nice older Minolta lenses at minimal cost to myself looking back now that turns out to have been a wise strategy. I'll have no such issues unloading on K mount equipment, I have confidence in their ability to respond to the needs of photographers, as I dislike the direction alpha is heading in obviously I won't be putting any funds into that.

It's a traditional Minolta strategy cameras designed for photographers by photographers, that does not sit well currently with A mount.

[Greg Beetham]

I'm only tight fisted where it concerns Sony, I made a vow a long time ago (when I bought the A100) that I wouldn't buy any more Sony stuff until they fixed the Macro flash system that they deliberately screwed up, (so they could sell some LED ringlight of their own in place of the Ringflash), well I did break that vow after all, I went and bought an a700 on the offchance that Sony might eventually fix the Macro flash, but no they didn't and probably never will now that they are busily screwing up the flash system itself. And why should anyone buy Sony accessories that may or may not be compatible with cameras they produce in the near future, I suppose if I was like mike2008 I'd just keep buying Sony gear regardless of what direction I was being led in.
Greg

[dennismullen]

I bought several Minolta Macro Flash Systems on eBay but ultimately sold them when I could get twice what I paid for them.
I recently purchased a Sigma Flash Macro Ring EM-140 DG for $379US and am very happy with it.

Cheers,