All future Alphas will be SLT!!!???

[bfitzgerald]

Some strange posts flying around not just here but other places. It's a controversial subject (that says something on it's own)

Yes a quick play in a shop is never enough yes the EVF on the A55 is big and bright that's kinda where the fun part ends when low light hits it gets pretty noisy (and distractingly so) colour tearing issues when panning or moving it around with eye to VF have been mentioned in reviews etc it is quite noticeable and off putting it blows out highlight end and crushes the blacks shadow end too. And the actual resolution whilst adequate is nowhere near what it needs to be not a bad stab and if you were using a super zoom you'd be chuffed to bits (it's way better than those joke EVF's)

It's just nowhere near good enough to even think about being an OVF replacement. As I've said I'm out of A mount now just using what I have I might offload one body though we'll see no more Sony for me

[Greg Beetham]

Yes some odd posts Barry, an aiming device for the hot-shoe in one? And the usual diatribe supporting whatever Sony feels like doing to system compatibility and jerking their customers around, in another.
You know someone doesn’t have any argument when they resort to name calling, it’s their last refuge.
I have seen plenty of posts on other forums (here as well) from people saying that their accessory buying is on hold, in other words they are not going to spend any money on lenses while the direction of Sony is as it currently is, so while Sony may be selling plenty of SLT’s at the moment they might be loosing lots of sales in lenses and accessories to others.
KM didn’t just sell everything too Sony and run away, Sony had to sign an agreement that they would maintain the i-shoe and the A-mount specifications for a certain amount of time; I don’t know the amount of time it was in force for, it might have expired for all I know. In any case Sony themselves have described the operation as a MERGER on numerous occasions, not a buyout.
Also where did the information come from that the A700 was a poor seller? I have never seen any supporting information, links or references to support that claim, it’s most likely just another pro EVF supporter justification, like the claim that Sony HAD to go SLT or sink out of sight.
In reality all Sony ever had to do was build a better camera….one without any faults or glitches, and they might as well fix the rest of their infrastructure while they are doing it.
Things such as, manufacturing, QC, marketing/promotion, distribution, representation, dealer relationships, customer relations and backup service, if Sony fixed those, they might not need to rely just on making SLT’s and abandon traditional OVF DSLR’s, where they seem to have decided it’s all too hard.
Greg

[alphaomega]

Also where did the information come from that the A700 was a poor seller? I have never seen any supporting information, links or references to support that claim, it’s most likely just another pro EVF supporter justification, like the claim that Sony HAD to go SLT or sink out of sight.

This is just a bit taken out of Greg Beetham's post above. I made the claim based on my recollections of what was written and postulated around the place at the time. The A700 did not sell because it did not handle high ISO as well as the Nikon D200 and equivalent Canon 40D I think. Look at Pentax and their excellent OVF DSLR cameras. Their market share has not improved. They are hanging on. Barry will tell you that their cameras represent excellent value considering the features built in. It is a well known fact that if you want to displace sitting tenants such as Canon and Nikon you need to come up with something new and exiting at a competitive price. Nothing to do with supporting Sony. I have made the point at the same time as I bought the A580. Let us look at things objectively and relax until the new Sony cameras are revealed. Nobody outside a closely knit circle what technical innovations Sony have been able to produce. They are not going to become No. 2 by trying to match a Nikon D7000 or Canon 60D point for point. Why should anyone switch to Sony if their cameras are no better or worse than the major players. Just seems like common sense to me. Only ground breaking new cameras with advanced (and usable) functions will do and "chiming" with the desires of the new generations such as what Apple and Google have done. Just my thoughts and I am not a Sony apologists.

[bfitzgerald]

Pentax have their weak points they've just not got the distribution or shelf space in shops and they have a lens range that is less appealing for bargain hunters if they addressed that they would be doing quite well overall. Have to remember this is a company that has only recently started to really get it's act together with DSLR's they have more work to do.

Sony are out there but it's mostly lower end models and very little else lens wise again basic stuff like a few cheaper primes the odd flash a NEX here and there, they just do not have the range of Canon and Nikon where you can easily find D7000's, 60d's, entry models right up to the 7d and a decent selection of lenses too.

Don't forget Sony has also not been competing at the A700 level for a while now so that's not going to help them as they've been out of the game at that level. I think the value of a product in the market to an end user is not judged by market share but if it meets their needs. Sony will find it very difficult to remove Canon and Nikon as the brand appeal is far higher than Sony ever will be. Personally I've never been brand based but folks just go for Canikon and they'll not change that overnight. It was a mistake to say they want to be no. 2 Samsung also made a fool of themselves for making over ambitious claims about market share (that they have no hope of reaching)

[Greg Beetham]

You're probably correct alphaomega, the A700 maybe didn't sell as well as it should have, it could have been something that made a real impact for Sony, had it been better managed, but there really should have been a follow up A700b version with a later sensor by now, instead of a plethora of consumer models.
Did Sony realize the implications of their announcement when they stated that they were going to be No2? did they think becoming No2 was going to be so easy? did that statement of theirs give Nikon the respect it deserves? make.believe....good grief. How is Sony planning to become a credible No2 without a 7 model on the shelf for a year?
I never said they shouldn't have an SLT either; Sony can have a success with SLT's, that's fine by me, but I have serious doubts that they will become No2 with them, or even that an SLT belongs in the 7 realm. And that's not primarily because the SLT design isn't capable of doing it, it's because Sony is at the helm....well sort of...
Greg

[alphaomega]

Barry should not forget that Pentax as a unified company have had longer than Sony to develop their camera/lens range and distribution. Sony had little experience of the DSLR market when they took over Minolta and inherited what was left of Minolta and a knowledge base/product line that had left Konica-Minolta to give up the ghost and sell out. Sony then tried the traditional way of taking CAN/NIK on frontally with A100 and then A700. No big dent was made there. They then tried beginners DSLRs with A200/350/380 etc with not much effect either. The A550 and particularly A580 were improvements and sensor design and development have made major strides forward. Only when they applied their electronic knowledge in the form of SLT and NEX products did they begin to make a major improvement in their penetration. They are now ahead of the pack in new products and features in a market that will be populated by young people grown up with PC/laptop/smart phones and the rest. They will recognise and take to Sony's new products. At least that is my view. I am purely stating a view, rather than my preferences. I bought the A580 and the NEX-5. The A580 can do everything I require, but as I do not get any younger, the NEX-5 with 16mm pancake, 18-55 zoom and U/W converter fit into a small and light bag and will produce DSLR quality images. I will get the 55-200 when available and I will be fine for 95% of what I want to do. Even Thom (Nikon chap) thinks that the NEX-5 provides the best image quality of all these small cameras. I am sorry if he is not able to handle the interface. Perhaps he has not tried hard enough. Time will show if Sony can keep in front technically and attract enough new users to make real inroads into CAN/NIK's market shares. Personally I think they will, but it will take time.

[alphaomega]

I did'nt see this until after I had posted above

Sony may control about 15 percent of the global market for single-lens-reflex cameras by the end of March, Masashi Imamura, president of the Personal Imaging & Sound Business Group, said in an interview in Tokyo yesterday. The maker of alpha-series cameras and NEX models had an average market share of about 10 percent in the previous four years it has been in the segment.

found on http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-2 ... odels.html (through sonyalpharumors). So Sony may be at 15% by March and they want more. As I said I think they will make major inroads and it would appear they have Nikon in their sights. I am sure they will also want to take Canon down a peg as less Nikons sold means fewer Sony sensor dispatched in that particular direction. Canon shows no signs of urgency towards SLT/NEX type products. Perhaps they are a bit like Microsoft before they discovered the importance of the Internet. Who knows what is going on in the Canon camp.

[bfitzgerald]

I'll have to disagree on the 2008 entry range they were IMO making good progress with those models and Sony even themselves said they were getting good market share (up to 20% I believe) in Europe. I've seen quite a few of those A200-350 models around so I feel they sold well.

Unfortunately instead of building upon that success the company came out with the horribly unpopular A230-380 series which were worse than the range they replaced at this point Sony ceased to become an appealing option at the lower end of the market. The A500/550 models were not really ground breaking enough and didn't address the weaker points or have video either that sealed their fate to the bargain basement bin. A700 was left out to hang and go no update probably costing the company users who moved to other makers frustrated with no replacement.

Only the more recent A560/580 models go some way to bringing the range back to competitive levels

So IMO Sony have not done a particularly good job at cracking the DSLR market

[Scooterman]

What do you class as ground breaking?
Video or perhaps SLT technology?
The days of the standard DSLR are numbered, Canon Nikon etc have been putting out warmed over models for a while now, better sensors, LCD’s etc but nothing what you would call ground breaking.
I believe Sony have been very brave in what they are doing, we will see if it works or not, they think it will or they would not have spent the money they have.

Richard

[bossel]

I tested the EVF of the A55 today but it's probably pointless trying to discuss my thoughts on it in this thread

[alphaomega]

I tested the EVF of the A55 today but it's probably pointless trying to discuss my thoughts on it in this thread

It is a pity that someone like bossel should feel that he is not able (or willing) to share his experience of trying the A55 EVF on this tread. I do hope that bossel will change his mind and give us his opinion.
What is the point of having a discussion forum if members do not feel they can express their opinion?

[twm47099]

You're probably correct alphaomega, the A700 maybe didn't sell as well as it should have, it could have been something that made a real impact for Sony, had it been better managed, but there really should have been a follow up A700b version with a later sensor by now, instead of a plethora of consumer models.

Remember, The A700 was initially awarded the dreaded dpreview "Recommend" rating when it first came out due to the way it handled high ISO and general image quality. After one of the firmware updates, (don't recall if it was v4 or not) dpreview updated the review and gave it a Highly Recommended. By then for sales of the A700, it was too late, since other brands had superseded its features by then.

I only bought my A700 late in 4th Q 2009, because I finally accepted that Sony might not release another, it was going out of stock at B&H, and it was going to be the best I could get with a long term manufacturer's warranty.

Additionally, in the US, I never saw an advertisement for an A700 in direct mailings or anyplace else, other than in photo magazines (same currently for A580 - except since I don't buy US photomagazines anymore I can't even say that they have the A580 there**), while I see ads for Canikon in almost every high end magazine I get (Nat Geo, etc.)

Additionally, around the time the A700 was released, my local independent camera store stopped carrying any Sony products. The owner wouldn't go into details but essentially Sony change policy. A month later the Sony Store opened in the local mall, but didn't carry the A700 until the A900 was released. (They still don't carry the A580). Never saw an A700 in the local Best Buy (so unfortunately, I couldn't take advantage of the Best Buy sell off.)

Circuit City carried the A700, but it was always priced $200-$300 more than the Sony list price, and didn't come down (locally) to the original Sony list price until the Circuit City liquidation sale, even though the Sony price was a lit less by then. (The in store price at CC was always higher than the equivalent C & N cameras, and of course only kit lenses were available in store.)

There was a lot that Sony could have done to increase A700 sales if they cared even a little bit.


** Note most US photo magazines repeat the same stuff over on a yearly cycle, and you can only read so many equipment reviews by people who don't know what they are talking about or the 53rd installment of curing red-eye. Higher end photo mags like Nature's Best are primarily showcases for C&N, and the ads reflect that.

tom

[bossel]

It is a pity that someone like bossel should feel that he is not able (or willing) to share his experience of trying the A55 EVF on this tread. I do hope that bossel will change his mind and give us his opinion.
What is the point of having a discussion forum if members do not feel they can express their opinion?

Thanks alphaomega, I hope I have expressed myself clearly without being too hard. I know I can express my thoughts freely here (and that's what I did ). If I want endless and pointless discussions why Sony is bad and why Sony is good, I can go to dpreview, but I have stopped looking into these discussions years ago.

[Scooterman]

[quote** Note most US photo magazines repeat the same stuff over on a yearly cycle, and you can only read so many equipment reviews by people who don't know what they are talking about or the 53rd installment of curing red-eye. Higher end photo mags like Nature's Best are primarily showcases for C&N, and the ads reflect that.

][/quote]

We have the same problem over the pond here, one mag (rag) in particular favours the manufacturer who sponsors? The most.
It was Samsung and now Canon, Nikon did ok a while ago.
As for dealers in Sony gear the main ones stock is not bad but local dealers rely on just Canon and Nikon, I like to try before I buy.

Richard

[bfitzgerald]

Thanks alphaomega, I hope I have expressed myself clearly without being too hard. I know I can express my thoughts freely here (and that's what I did ). If I want endless and pointless discussions why Sony is bad and why Sony is good, I can go to dpreview, but I have stopped looking into these discussions years ago.

I have a solution you could simply make a post and get your point across..or you could (as you did with my 6mp v 10mp CCD thread) simply rant about something entirely pointless and complain about not getting your point across

The choice is yours!