A77 hands on at endgadget

[Birma]

What a week for Alpha! After all of the leaks there were no real surprises in the A77. A bit disappointed they have gone to one card slot (don't care what type it is). Great to see all of the previews etc., but I hope we see DK's full review soon after release.

[Greg Beetham]

Yes Birma I thought the supposed one memory slot was a bit strange as well, I spent a couple of hours looking all over the web at various Sony places etc. to see if I could uncover the pdf file on the users guide book, but to no avail.
Aram thats the first I've heard that diffraction is sensor related and not lens related, I wonder what the optimum f-stop would be for a really tiny sensor?
Greg

[aramkostanyan]

As I mentioned I just copied the update what was written there.
However, the sensor size does matter.
Below you can find some pictures of diffraction pattern and the equation for diffraction angles dxsin(alpha)=nxlambda, d - is the diameter of the slit or hole, alpha is the angle at which the initial light changes its direction, lambs is the wavelength.
I think, that if a diffraction ring is about 10 mkm (micrometer) in diameter (no correct numbers, just for example) and if the pixel size 40mkm, it would not effect the picture, however, if the pixel size is 5 mkm, the diffraction will degrade the picture a lot. And the pixel size depend from the density of pixels. In our case of FF and APS-C their density is different. In other words the maximum permissible circle of confusion for FF is 33mkm (0.033mm) and for APS-C is about 22 mkm,
If the MPCC is big, it is more tolerant to bad quality of optics and diffraction, but DOF is bigger.

[David Kilpatrick]

Aram - one of the issues with diffraction is the assumption that all components in a system change their relative scale. Pinhole cameras need very thin metal for the pinhole, because of many issues but also because diffraction gets worse when passing a more complex (L-angle) thick edge.

Some small sensor cameras - like the wonderful Konica Minolta A2 - successfully overcame diffraction limits by using lens apertures very finely engineered (from very thin materials). By those standards, the 24 megapixel APS-C sensor is not much of a challenge - but many of the lenses to be used with just don't have any special design to reduce the effects of diffraction. E-series lenses are, I think, better than A-mount lenses in this respect or could be.

I'm going to keep using my A900 and I have just bought one of those low-cost 28-75mm SAM lenses to see if it's better than my older KM model.

David

[aramkostanyan]

Thank you for more detailed explanation David.
As I understood it's both the lens engineering issue and sensor size

[bfitzgerald]

One thing is pretty clear I just don't see a high demand from users for more resolution..nowhere near to the degree it was years ago. I suspect most are pretty happy with 10-16mp or around there.

I'm not seeing a high demand for high fps either I guess you have nothing to lose on that side. I expect it to do pretty well but it's not going to change things v the top 2 makers. I'm fairly sure a significant number of potential buyers will be put off with the SLT aspect. People are just not asking for EVF's on DSLR type cameras. I'm not sure of the logic of "enforcing Sony's idea" on buyers who don't really care.

[Dusty]

Barry, your latest post gave me a bit insight on the perfect use for the 77- Night sports under dim conditions! Fast FPS, along with auto-gain in the EVF, means that for all those high school sports played at night under the usual dim lights, you can get good shots!

Of course, in most pro settings the lights at night are bright enough to not need the auto-gain EVF, and you only need 12 FPS because with the EVF's delay, you have to shoot before you see the action to get the shot. Maybe it would be just be better to shoot it in video and grab frames!

Dusty

[bfitzgerald]

Dusty of course you are right every tool has it's target area and I'm sure the A77 will find it's user base. Don't talk to me about shooting video frames and grabbing stills (heard video shooters predict they will extinct photographers in the future..yeah..hmmm)
Have to say though even on DPR the fans seem mostly underwhelmed..not much chatter from other DSLR users either.

I'm wondering if Sony might have handled this one better esp regarding image samples.

[alphaomega]

bfitzgerald

Have to say though even on DPR the fans seem mostly underwhelmed..not much chatter from other DSLR users either.

I must then be one of the few that have been "overwhelmed". I would have liked the A77 - but too heavy for me now. I might buy the A65 - looks good to me and smaller/lighter than the A77. Fancy the NEX-7 to delegate my NEX-5 to second place when travelling light - lack of lenses makes me hold back. I could buy the new converter with phase detection. Problem, I will not have SSS or VR in camera/lens combinations. Basic problem for Sony is really that my A580 can more than do what I require. My A550 can also perform to requirements and my NEX-5 images are as good as I require. The W/A converter is a bit bad for CA, but LR deals with it (mostly).
So what will I do? Sit back and wait for some good reviews of the production models when available. May buy the SEL55200 or wait to see if somebody (Sony/Sigma/Tamron) release a smaller/lighter 18-200 or so and a handy W/A zoom say 18-30mm (35mm equivalent). Based on preliminary opinions I would be quite happy with the EVF quality now available in Sony APS-C cameras. The 24Mp sensor would primarily be of benefit to "extend" the "reach" of the lenses and provide for severe cropping of W/A images after distortion correction - that is assuming that the 24Mp image would be sharper than my 14 or 16Mp sensor images uprated to 24Mp. 24Mp is not required for my uses but then computer power has increased and storage is now so cheap. It is interesting that the NEX-7 is doing well on pre-order http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/amazon-u ... n-the-a77/

[Atgets_Apprentice]

All this speculation is irelevant. It matters not a jot that the a77 could be the best APS-C camera ever launched, as we all know that the photographic press will always favour the Canikon duopoly. A prime example is the upcoming issue of Amateur Photographer, which pits the NEX 3c against the Nikon D7000! Recently they put the a55 up against a high end Canon! These are very different cameras for very different markets, and don't bear comparison!

The reviews will always favour the "Big Two", and the only thing that will sell the a77, just as it has for the a33/35/55, will be people buying for the gimmick of the EVF and fixed mirror.

For myself, I'll just be sticking with a quality camera with a proper viewfinder, and if Sony don't make them, I'll be moving to the competition.

[alphaomega]

A prime example is the upcoming issue of Amateur Photographer, which pits the NEX 3c against the Nikon D7000!

Same (or nearly same) 16Mp sensor Atgets_Apprentice.

Could be they want to compare Sony's latest interpretation of this sensor's capabiities compared with Nikon. Watch out for their glass choice that they don't pitch Sony's SEL1855 agains prime quality Nikon glass. They could put the Nikon lens on the NEX-C3 with a converter. Agree that on the face of it the comparison is silly due to price difference etc. Might buy the AP issue out of curiosity.

[Greg Beetham]

I wonder how many people would have bought an updated A700 if Sony had brought that out a year ago or even 6 months ago with the 16 MP sensor while they were also working on this SLT model. I don’t know how much the lack of video would have affected sales on an updated A700 but I wouldn’t have cared if it had been included or not, it'd be ok as long as it didn't affect any part of it being equal too the user interface on the previous model.
In order too have an OVF the same as in the A700 it would have to have MF in live view using the rear tilt screen and that would have been fine by me as well, that way you could either use it as a standard DSLR with a proper full bright OVF and PDAF or use it with mirror up MF and live view on the rear screen for macro, studio, architectural etc. if desired. Sony could have also included video but only with MF, and that would be ok too if working off a tripod, it’s not that hard to manual focus.
So I wonder how many would have looked more favourably on a model like that instead of the all electronic 24MP A77 if given the choice.
Greg

[Atgets_Apprentice]

A prime example is the upcoming issue of Amateur Photographer, which pits the NEX 3c against the Nikon D7000!

Same (or nearly same) 16Mp sensor Atgets_Apprentice.

Could be they want to compare Sony's latest interpretation of this sensor's capabiities compared with Nikon. Watch out for their glass choice that they don't pitch Sony's SEL1855 agains prime quality Nikon glass. They could put the Nikon lens on the NEX-C3 with a converter. Agree that on the face of it the comparison is silly due to price difference etc. Might buy the AP issue out of curiosity.

I think we already know that it won't be a level playing field.

I checked back, and the Canon the a55 was tested against was the Eos 1D Mk IV. Again, chalk & cheese, other than the frame rate.

[aramkostanyan]

That comparison is just to blame A55, only for that. As usual customer, who do not really look at the quality himself and just listens it is bad against canon, really without noticing WHICH Canon.
I personally own A55, yes I agree that it is more pleasant to look through OVF, but I do not mind about it, EVF really helps taking pictures, checking DOF, and in low light situations, when you do not see anything through usual OVF, you can see the picture, but grainy.

[Greg Beetham]

When it comes to photographic magazines the content usually favours the ones who buy the most advertising, I haven’t bothered buying any photographic magazines here for a long time but I’ve had a quick look through a couple occasionally in a newsagent and it’s mostly Canon and Nikon on just about every page, advertising and article content. I’m wondering if AP made a point of comparing the price difference of the 1D Mk IV and the A55 and what you get in each for your money after that, or did they just compare the cameras and sort of forget about the price.
Greg

Ps. It looks like no one likes my suggestion of Sony doing an A700b as well as a SLT77….