Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

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OneGuyKs

Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by OneGuyKs »

twm47099 wrote: Illogical statement. Sony (along with every large corporation) has NDA agreements with all of its employees.
tom
Huh? You can provide info to SAR anonymously online without anyone figuring out that you just violated the NDA. With millions of Sony employee, distributors, third-party advertisers, retailers, there is good chance a few would feed a site like SAR anonymously.

How is wikkileaks getting clasified info (which unlike NDA carry a prison sentence too)?

There doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy theory and a secret department of rumors at Sony/Panasonic/Olympus head-offices in Japan to explain how SAR and 4/3 rumors site work.

Explain this: Did all these three Japanese companies creat these secret rumor offices simultaneously at the same exact time when SAR and 43 rumor was lanced by two friends two years ago?

how weird ...
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bakubo
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Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by bakubo »

OneGuyKs wrote: If you have any understanding of basic logic, you would know that one who makes a positive assertion must prove it. If you conspiracy theorists are claiming there is grand conspiracy by Sony (and Panasonic, and Oly) behind SAR and 43rumors, that is a positive claim.

Prove it.
Go back and you will see I was speculating. I didn't make any definitive statements. You did. I see you can't back up your definitive statement though. That means you are just speculating. Unless you do have some definitive inside knowledge at a high level in Sony. If so, show us.

You dug yourself into a hole. :lol:
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Greg Beetham
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Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

What’s more loony OneGuyKs, speculating that Sony might be using some kind of attention getting stunt by releasing a substandard and unfinished camera to reviewers, or the alternative that Sony is so inept that they did just that accidentally forgoing the in house testing and de-bugging and allowed photos too be published taken with the unfinished camera as well?
Maybe some of the Sony management (and some Sony fans) have been abducted by aliens because the whole thing so far is just plain weird, even weirder than usual actually when you compare the poor performance of the 24MP sensor against the 16MP sensor in the NEX5n and no one in Sony seemed to notice.
And I don’t think anyone was giving Sony credit for anything except maybe ‘accidentally’ dropping some snippets in SAR’s direction now and then to keep the interest and attention of those who like being fed rumours instead of cameras and accessories.
Greg
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bakubo
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Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by bakubo »

For those who have lived their whole lives under a rock then it might be useful to look up these terms:

astroturfing
undercover marketing
stealth marketing
guerrilla marketing
viral marketing


Many companies use these things and especially with astroturfing, undercover marketing, stealth marketing you may never really know -- although many people might have reason to be suspicious.

By the way, the basic ideas aren't really all that new. Politicians and their staffs have for thousands of years made use of anonymous/unattributed leaks, leaks through surrogates, etc. to let information out, put out disinformation, put up trial balloons, etc. Internet forums and social media these days are especially hot among the politically minded people. Sometimes the person receiving the leak never even knows that it is an authorized, intentional leak.

It has also been pretty common for probably centuries for some politicians, writers, business people, etc. to either use a false name or a surrogate to write complimentary letters to newspapers and other publications or write critical letters about an opponent. These days on Amazon.com there is sometimes the problem of the writer of a book or his friends writing great reviews to his book or to writing bad reviews to someone else's book. I am sure Amazon tries to delete stuff they are suspicious of, but it is not likely that they catch most of it.

None of us know what non-conventional marketing techniques Sony and other companies are using in the 21st Century, but it is very naive to think these things don't exist or that a huge corporation doesn't know about any of them and may not make use of them sometimes along with the conventional techniques. But, yes, some people are very gullible, thus the famous quote: "There's a sucker born every minute." :lol:
OneGuyKs

Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by OneGuyKs »

bakubo wrote:
OneGuyKs wrote: Go back and you will see I was speculating. I didn't make any definitive statements. You did.
You dug yourself into a hole. :lol:
You apparently don't understand the very basic of logic. The one who makes a positive assertion must provide proof. You can't prove a negative. Sony has nothing to do with SAR. That's a negative.

Let's say you speculate green men live on Mars. I say no they don't. You then ask me for proof. I hope it's clear even for you now. Positive claims require proof.

If you have evidence to back-up your speculation that Sony is behind SAR, go ahead post it.

"You dug yourself into a hole."

Yeah, right.

Funny thing is that an year or two ago you and others would mock anyone who linked to SAR. Now these same people are claiming SAR is semi-official Sony site. Funny how time has changed.
OneGuyKs

Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by OneGuyKs »

Greg Beetham wrote:What’s more loony OneGuyKs, speculating that Sony might be using some kind of attention getting stunt by releasing a substandard and unfinished camera to reviewers,
Greg
WTF?

Where did I say that?

Please refrain from attributing things to me.
OneGuyKs

Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by OneGuyKs »

bakubo wrote:For those who have lived their whole lives under a rock then it might be useful to look up these terms:

astroturfing
undercover marketing
stealth marketing
guerrilla marketing
viral marketing
That's all good. But SAR site is run by Andrea and the identical 4/3 rumor by his friend.

Stop insulting Andrea by giving credit to Sony for SAR success.

He worked hard to make it a great site, and it's specially pathetic that these same people (like you) would mock anyone who even linked to SAR an year ago.
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Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

Sony UK has direct contact with Andrea and does respond to the rumours - at least to the extent of letting them know if something is a complete red herring or should be downgraded on their ranking system. But never to provide the rumour to start with. Same for me, if I am way off mark I get to find out. And we do get allowed to almost-confirm some rumours too, for example I believe the A99 rumour is solid and we will see full frame SLT or entirely mirrorless Alpha mount.

David
OneGuyKs

Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by OneGuyKs »

David Kilpatrick wrote:Sony UK has direct contact with Andrea and does respond to the rumours
I guess by Sony UK you mean Paul Genge. I have no doubt that Paul Genge (along with the rest of the world with any interest in Alpha cameras) read SAR. But that is because SAR is a successful/interesting site.

A few months ago SAR posted a claim that the EVF in A77/Nex-7 was developed by Samsung. Paul Genge in his facebook Q&A video disputed that (without ever mentioning SAR but obviously he must have read this on SAR to respond to it!).

However, that doesn't change the fact that 43rumor and SAR are successful because of the hard work done by Andrea and his fried ( latest news, links, tidbits, youtube clips, not just rumors). They build the site from grounds up from nothing. Not all of the rumors on the site were initially even correct (vast majority were wrong initially). Wasn't Andrea expecting A700 replacement too (a real one, not just a mockup) in Feb 2010 at PMA? Yes I remember. He was surprised to see just a mock-up for A7x and only Nex mockup too (see SAR archive PMA 2010).

Now funny thing is that very same people (here and dyxum) who now have declared SAR official Sony website were chastising everyone who posted links to "rumor" websites.

This is interesting 100% turn around.
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Greg Beetham
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Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

OneGuyKs wrote:
WTF?

Where did I say that?

Please refrain from attributing things to me.
OneGuyKs, I didn’t say you said that, go back and read what I said….carefully, all the way to the question mark, which because you ‘part-quoted’ managed too omit.
Don’t part-quote me please, if you had quoted properly you would have seen the question mark, and don’t call people I like loony either, just make your point without insults.
Greg

ps. You are still mixing up some idle speculation of no great importance with SAR's performance and accuracy and Sony's market strategy, good bad or indifferent, I for one don't really give a rats how accurate SAR was about predicting the A77. And for what it is worth I think there was supposed to be an OVF A700 replacement (numerous rumour sources, if one cared too listen to them), but it got put on the backburner when the SLT's proved successful, or so I've seen mentioned by others.
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Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by bakubo »

OneGuyKs wrote:You apparently don't understand the very basic of logic. The one who makes a positive assertion must provide proof. You can't prove a negative. Sony has nothing to do with SAR. That's a negative.
As a reminder, this is what you wrote:
OneGuyKs wrote:If now SAR gets *correct* inside info/rumors, maybe that is because the "leakers" know SAR has huge web traffic. Sony has nothing to do with it (good or bad).
You say definitively with no wiggle room that Sony has nothing to do with any info or rumors. Although not proof, you can increase your credibility about that absolute statement a lot by showing us that you are a high-level Sony employee in a position of power and marketing decision making. Hold your Sony badge that has your photo, name, and title up next to your face and get in front of your computer screen that shows this post on it and then take a photo of yourself, the badge, and the computer screen. Post that photo here where we can all see that you are someone that is very likely to know and therefore your absolute statement is much more trustworthy. Also, post this photo here in a reasonably short time so that no one will have reason to be suspicious that it is a Photoshop fabrication.

So far, you have totally ignored all requests about how you happen to know with absolute, ironclad certainty what Sony marketing all over the world is doing and not doing. Are you Howard Stringer? Are you Kazuo Hirai?
OneGuyKs

Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by OneGuyKs »

bakubo wrote:
OneGuyKs wrote:You apparently don't understand the very basic of logic. The one who makes a positive assertion must provide proof. You can't prove a negative. Sony has nothing to do with SAR. That's a negative.
As a reminder, this is what you wrote:
OneGuyKs wrote:If now SAR gets *correct* inside info/rumors, maybe that is because the "leakers" know SAR has huge web traffic. Sony has nothing to do with it (good or bad).
You say definitively with no wiggle room that Sony has nothing to do with any info or rumors. Although not proof, you can increase your credibility about that absolute statement a lot by showing us that you are a high-level Sony employee in a position of power and marketing decision making.
From publicly available information, we know SAR and 4/3rumor are run by Andrea and his friend, and Sony has nothing to do with it (no official announcement anywhere where Sony acknowledged being behind SAR). My statement is perfectly legitimate. Yours require proof. Until you do that, there is nothing wrong with saying Sony has nothing to do with SAR. Like a typical conspiracy believer, you are asking us to prove a negative before we are even allowed to state a perfectly legitimate statement based on publicly known information about SAR and Sony. Sony is a Japanese electronic consumer company. Their web site is sony.com. SAR is a rumor site about Alpha digital cameras run by a guy named Andrea. Sony has nothing to do with SAR <--that's 100% legitimate statement based on publicly available information about Andrea, SAR and Sony.

You really argue like a typical conspiracy theorist too. "Prove to us that George Bush wasn't behind 9/11" Yeah, right.
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Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by gio67 »

From publicly available information, we know SAR and 4/3rumor are run by Andrea and his friend, .

which one are you, Andrea or his friend ?
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Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by Atgets_Apprentice »

At the end of the day, does it matter where the rumours come from? I'm more interested in facts, and the facts seem to say that the cameras function poorly, if at all.

Here's another fact. For all the talk of Firmware, neither the a77 nor a65 are listed on the Sony UK support page, so any UK user who has one isn't going to get much joy in sorting anything out. http://support.sony-europe.com/dime/crl ... =odw_en_GB

More to the point, neverminding the rumours, Sony do not give a damn about QC or customer relations, with their failures to answer direct questions, but are quick to blow their own trumpet when it comes to technology, pixel counts & frame rates. They are not so forthcoming about their commitment to customers, be it about future OVF cameras, for those of use who don't want an SLT, or firmware support for the recently introduced models that they also recently discontinued. According to Paul Genge on Facebook yesterday, the only OVF camera still available is the a900. That is probably the only information anyone has got from Sony lately! (Mr Genge has promised to look into those matters, and get back with some answers. I am not holding my breath!).

I get more disheartened by the day, by Sony's failings, never fully having regained my faith in them after my misaligned/dirty sensor problems. I hope, everyday, that they will do something to restore that faith, but I also hope I'll win the lottery, and I think I've more chance of that!
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Re: Has the A77 been pulled from the UK?

Unread post by bakubo »

bakubo wrote:Found on another forum. For you in the UK do you know if the A77 has been pulled from the UK because of QC problems?

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/does-son ... a-problem/
No one has yet answered my question. Does anyone know if the A77 has been pulled from the UK?
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