Alpha 100 versus Alpha 77

[David Kilpatrick]

Canon offers SRaw, a small raw size, on larger sensor cameras. But unlike the way the A77 creates small JPEGs, it doesn't really seem to give better noise control. The larger Phase One and Hasselblad backs offer the option of pixel binning - you can shoot a 40 megapixel normal image of a 10 megapixel small raw with much lower noise and higher ISO options.

It strikes me that with 24 megapixels to play with, Sony has a sensor large enough to do this too. ISO 25,600 on six megapixels raw by 4 to 1 pixel binning. It would be very popular.

David

[Greg Beetham]

I had a very odd issue yesterday with Adobe trying to deactivate my laptop's CS5. Seems to have been down to the IP change though I thought they worked from the computer's serial number/identity. CS5 kept working which was a relief - with a message saying I had exceeded my installs because it still thought my roaming BTOpenzone connection was a different computer, not a different IP only.

David

I see Adobe is still as stupid as ever, I had a barny with them about their wanting to de-activate my Elements 8 because I exceeded the number of allowed installs. Their program apparently can’t identify itself on the computer (previous install) and it also thought it was being installed on a different computer because a component was replaced due to hardware failure, actually numerous hardware failures over a period due to a lightning surge/spike (I think). The power supply gave out first, then a hard disk, a memory DIM and finally a graphics card; a couple of times I had to do a repair install of everything and re-connect the programs back to Windows, every program except Adobe handled it ok; the Adobe installer says you have to un-install a previous Elements installation before you can do a re-install. And Adobe (when I contacted them about supposedly exceeding the number of installs) said you have to also de-activate the previous installation otherwise it counts as an install, but their stupid install program doesn’t inform you of that grrrrr.
Greg

[redsim74]

I see Adobe is still as stupid as ever...

Sounds familiar.

I spent a good chunk of last weekend trying to get CS5.5 working on my sister's new laptop. I'd migrated the data across from an old computer I'd given them that had a previous CS3 install. The new install wouldn't register their (legitimate) serial number.

I got there eventually, having jumped through the required number of Adobe hoops.

[Bruce Oudekerk]

It strikes me that with 24 megapixels to play with, Sony has a sensor large enough to do this too. ISO 25,600 on six megapixels raw by 4 to 1 pixel binning. It would be very popular.

I find the whole concept of ‘pixel binning’ to improve noise interesting…not that I know much about it. At least on a theoretical level, how much better is pixel binning than, lets say, taking a 24MP RAW image, processing it for low noise at the expense of some detail and then down-sampling to 6 MP?

I do something like this with my a850 to 12MP and tongue–in-cheek call it my poor-man’s D3. On screen it gives the illusion of gaining an EV or so to me and done correctly the noise is virtually non-existent or very tight grain-like after a careful final sharpening. To be honest, I haven’t experimented enough with higher ISO IN PRINT to know if I’m just fooling myself, so I would like to know your thoughts.

As I said before, I jumped from a 6MP camera to a 24MP camera and have been using it for 2 years. I find the generally excessive MP liberating as it gives me the luxury of a multitude of PP possibilities.

Bruce

[David Kilpatrick]

Bruce - it does work the same way on the A850/900, yes. The difference for me is that I don't generally use the A900 in an application where I want a final JPEG of smaller size, but I do use the APS-C cameras that way. So shooting JPEG only and 6 megapixels works fine for a conference event with snaps. I have used the 900 before at this event but the A77 was SO much more convenient!

David

[motor]

David I have a question / favor to ask. I can't remember if you got rid of your A700 so maybe you can't do this. I know this subject was to compare the A100 to A77 and how far they have come but since the A77 was to be the new and improved A700 can you take a simple outside shot comparing the A700 at say 200 ISO 12 MP with the 16-80mm and then the same shot with the A77 at iso 200 with the 16-80 (same MM) both 12mp and 24. I'd really like to see 12 mp A700 to 12mp A77 and then compared to the 24mp. I know I am asking alot but try to get blue sky and greens if possible. I am curious to see the blue sky comparison of the two and the color sharpness of the two. My ISO/ grain question will be answered. A simple F5.6-8 would be fine. How big is the 12 MP files compared (A700 to A77?) This will also answer my question of blue fringe around the tree lines.

I am just curious to see apples to apples and oranges to oranges. The blue sky might be a bit to ask for this time of year but just curious to compare the two mates

Moater

[Greg Beetham]

David any chance you could plonk your F56 on the A77 and try a few shots, especially using the AEL button with a backlit subject at both high and low background EV and minus maybe 1/3 or 2/3 flash compensation…when you can.
Greg

[David Kilpatrick]

Don't have a 56 (5600?) only a 58 and 42 and the 20, plus some very old Minolta stuff which isn't compatible.

David

[Greg Beetham]

Don't have a 56 (5600?) only a 58 and 42 and the 20, plus some very old Minolta stuff which isn't compatible.

David

David the F58 or the F42 would be ok in the absence of the F56, I thought you had a 5600HS(D), and could you put the ISO on [Auto] camera in
[P mode] also (I forgot), when or if you get around to it sometime.

[Mal]

David,
I'm interested in the "12MP from A77" - your samples look very impressive. Is there any advantage (apart from file size) in doing this in-camera rather than doing it in PP? And what would be the best way to do it in PP? Normally, when I want smaller files I use Irfanview with its re-sample option for convenience. If printing at A4 for example, is there a difference in printing from a 12MP file or from a 24MP file - does either the printer engine or the printing software effectively do the same job? I suppose, to summarize my questions, is there any difference in the output between setting the camera to 12MP and printing or leaving the camera set to the full 24 MP?

Totally different topic - someone else asked about the 56 flash. I've just tried mine out briefly. The exposure (on bounce) seems o.k. Flash exposure compensation seems effective. I had a heart-stopping moment when I went to try wireless - the menu only gives ADI/TTL/Manual!!! A quick delve into the manual shows it's set with the FN button - phew! And yes, it seems to work o.k. with the 56.

[David Kilpatrick]

There are benefits to using thre 12MP JPEG setting especially if you have a slower SD card - you can shoot more pix, faster, get more on the card, the download faster to the computer and the quality is pretty much as good as you would expect from raws processed to the same size. They would make a fine A4 print or even an A3, so if circumstances indicate you don't want a big overload of data, the Extra Fine JPEG option is there.

I may use it more in future.

David

[Greg Beetham]

David have you had a chance to do ANY flash tests with the A77 yet? (I didn’t think you would get around to my test request); I ask because Gary Friedman has a thread currently at dpr about his A77 having exposure problems with flash.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readf ... d=39679384
Greg

[David Kilpatrick]

Gary contacted me. I've tried the onboard, the 20 and the 58. I have normal exposure, fairly bright not underexposed, from my A77.

The only problem I have found is that Auto ISO on the A77 can be very wide ranging, on mine up to 3200. It does not always seem to fall back to 100 for flash. I have found that on program, it's a good idea to fix the ISO at 400 for flash. Otherwise there is some risk of exposure being inevitable at closer range.

I am not a regular user of flash, which Gary is. So I am not very well placed to comment, the only time I use flash is to test it. I prefer natural light 99% of the time.

David

[Greg Beetham]

Thanks David, your A77 is ok at flash exposure and that’s good, I suppose (hope) the AEL button flash balance system is also still working normally then.
I guess in Scotland you don’t have the extreme exposure differences on something in direct sun and any shadows contained in the subject. Here there is an enormous difference on occasion, and using flash to try lifting those dark shadows is really something to consider seriously. I need a camera that can handle daylight flash fill, like my current cameras do reasonably well; I was quite interested in the A77’s ISO50 for that reason, although otoh HSS seems to do the job ok as long as the distance is not too great.
Greg

[stevecim]

I hear ya Greg, even in Melbourne, It's almost impossible to take a image with the lens wide open only having a low limit of ISO200 on the A550. The fact that Sony quickly went back to ISO100 shows they know they got it wrong, pity they did not release a update to reinstate iso100 on the A500/550