A77 II has landed!

[classiccameras]

Thanks Bak, i've always liked the 60D but shyed away due to the size and weight, however I picked up a used one the other day in my local store just to test its weight and size, I guess its not as bad as I first thought. Trouble is, finding one in good condition with low 'mileage' and at the right price.

[Birma]

Congrats on the new camera. You'll never be short of finding a lens or worrying about your next camera body again . I was talking to two friends about cameras on Saturday. Neither of them are keen photographers but both wondering if they should get a dslr. We discussed high end P&S and mirror-less (quite hard to explain to non-camera geeks!) but at the end of the day slr means 'proper camera' to them. I couldn't help but say 'get a Canon'. Easy line up to understand. Everything you could want easily available. Easy to see why they are no. 1.

[bfitzgerald]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Canon-EOS ... 417bd4c44b

Not even worth hesitating on! The seller has a good reputation, 3 year warranty included. Heck even a skin flint like myself wouldn't think twice about it. I'm almost tempted to buy one myself at that price.

[Greg Beetham]

Yeah wow crazy prices here as well, I can buy a 60D and a two lens kit (Canon 18-55 and Canon 75-300) for $834 AUD, you would think just the 75-300 would be around that much, amazing. It’s a sign that the camera industry is in trouble I think, mores the pity.
It’s very tempting if I had the spare dosh, especially since the Canon flash system works properly, and they have a macro flash system as well. You don’t need IBIS for macro if you use flash, it’s a non-issue.
Greg
Ps btw wise move Birma.

[classiccameras]

Thanks Birma

I'm not entirely giving up on Sony, Trouble is, Canon tick so many more boxes in so many areas. I think lens for lens the Sony lenses are slightly better optically, but then there is such a huge used Canon market you can build a system from various quality levels. Also the bigest range of 3rd party lenses are in Canikon mount. I much prefer IBIS but then the Canon in lens stabiliser system is just as good but the down side is slightly larger and heavier lenses, although the new STM range are much more compact and have lightning fast and silent focussing even on the basic kit lens.

[bfitzgerald]

Pros and cons to all systems really. Canon's flash is good (Nikon have excellent flash too) you can lay your hands on anything you want with ease (esp third party offerings)
If it's not on Canon, it's not on the market full stop.

60d is similar in size to the A77 it's not massive by any means (70d is a tad smaller)
I have been using a 70d and a 5dMkII on and off for a while just for fun, not jobs though (and an assortment of Canon lenses) it's extremely easy to borrow or use Canon stuff everyone I know has Canon gear.

One things I do note, jpegs aside there isn't the latitude in the Canon raw files (even the 5dMkII) to the same degree as the Sony sensors, might not be an issue just it stood out a bit. DR isn't as good no question but maybe good enough.
What stops me is IBIS for one..and with that in mind I don't gain anything even v the A57 IQ wise they're so close even in low light it's not worth talking about.

But do play around, see what you like and what works. Canon are pretty safe, it would take a bit of effort for me to embrace them (they are in many ways the "anti Minolta" company) in terms of design and handling, but we are all different. I still find it odd using Canon very odd and I can't get past that for some reason. It's not a case of can't use them..I could, I just feel detached and can't really warm to them and I've no idea why.

Still don't let me put you off what counts is the shutter buttons and what's in front of it.

[classiccameras]

Good to hear other views, I guess for want of a better word you have a slight 'hang up' with Canon and the anti Minolta thing. I can go right back when Canon were in direct competition with not only Minolta but Pentax as well and they all hated each other, Pentax ruled then and Nikon were struggling.
I shall stick with my 550D and ST 18-55 STM kit lens for a while to see how it develops. Agree about the Sony DR, no one comes close, may be Pentax K. I think Sony's IQ and DR peaked at 16mp.
One thing in Canon's favour is I live just 15 minute drive from Canon UK in Elstree/Boreham Wood, Herts. I have taken Canon cameras in there before and they often fix while you wait depending on problem and you get a cup of coffee.

[bfitzgerald]

You are right I've got a Canon hang up. Even back to 35mm days though I was more AF era than the MF days.
Simply put..commercial failure or not long term, Minolta spanked Canon hands down IMO. Every time I'd pick a Canon up..yuck handling not well designed hated it. Pick up a Minolta bang instant love.

You like what you like I suppose. I got on ok with Pentax and Nikon handling wise (nothing is perfect but I think on balance they were better in that area v the Canon) I suppose it comes down to what works for you. Different makers have different ideas about design. And the other problem..every person has a Canon hanging off their neck that kind of puts me off, bit like buying a 5 door "silver car" it might be practical but it's damn boring

Maybe I'll embrace Canon one day it goes beyond brand loyalty and dislike into personal preference. I can get over what the badge says..but sometimes a design philosophy isn't in line with my ideas. I lent my film 7 to my Canon shooter friend, he didn't want to give it back he said it blew away any Canon he'd ever touched (film or digital)

[alphaomega]

I won't say anything + or - about Canon as I have never even taken a single image with a Canon camera. I won't even consider buying a Canon however good the reviews are. I am an APS-C user and I simply dislike the 1.6 factor as I tend to go for wides. May be fine if you photograph distant birds. To me DR and definition are all important. I have given up on RAWs. Don't need them any more. I find that the Sony Jpeg fine from a NEX-6/5N or even RX100 has enough information for what I require.

[Greg Beetham]

I like the KM layout too, everything seems like it is a logical aid to taking photos in my three cameras, even the on screen menu choices are easy to navigate and you don’t need to press the [ok] button in the centre of the rear controller once you have used the arrows to skip to the correct one you just press the shutter button and it’s automatically selected.

I also especially like the [AEL] button used with spot toggle with or without flash, that’s the most amazing boon to doing photography easily and rapidly I can imagine any camera manufacturer has ever come up with, you can select an exposure from anywhere that looks like a good exposure for the prevailing light conditions with one press of the button.
Or you can check the highlight exposure against the shadow exposure and find one that’s roughly half way in between if you want, all done in a very short time and then you are free to focus on whatever you want and ignore the exposure.

That’s one reason why the exposure changes in spot wherever you point the spot meter, it’s an indicator that the spot toggle is either on or off.
Using flash in conjunction with the [AEL] button is also a boon to flash photography with backlit subjects, the camera will automatically juggle the exposure to balance the subjects as much as possible with the background, (segment metering) especially if you actually select and set the background exposure, again amazing stuff.

It’s completely mystifying to me when I see that some people re-assign the [AEL] button to some other function, I can only assume they don’t know how the camera actually works.

The way Minolta arranged the function of the [AEL] button is that it’s one of the most important buttons on the camera and rightfully so.
I don’t know if Canon has the same functionality with the [AEL] button (or Nikon or Pentax either) but I would be most reluctant to swap over to any of them that didn’t have that same functionality.

I also don’t know for sure how well this has been retained in the current Sony models either, I do know it all works fine in my three earlier model cameras though.
Greg

[classiccameras]

Your right Barry, every one and his brother has a Canon, just like the 5 door silver hatch back or is black now the new silver!!

I had MF Canons such as the AE1 Programme and a bunch of FD lenses, great system and superb IQ. I moved over to a Minolta X700 and later an XD7, with a few MF Rokkor lenses, still have them today. The only Pentax I used was an old Spotmatic with a 55mm F/2 super takumar lens, nice camera. Could never get on with Olympus, with the control ring on the lens. Just to get away from Canon and being a snob I got a Rolleiflex SL-35E with CZ lenses and ran that for a few years, I didn't think the CZ lenses were as good as the Canon FD.


Taking the snob value one stage further, I fitted some old KM neck straps to my A37 & 57 as I did not want to walk round air shows with Sony on my straps, how un cool is that, it raised a few eye brows from other Sony users who were quite rare to see. I like the Jpegs from my 2 Sony's provided you keep to low ISO settings, Canon however IMO are better, they manipulate in PP with a wider range.
As I said earlier, I'm not giving up on Sony because they are much easier to use and adjust and above all I like them. the Canon is just an exercise to see how it pans out in comparison to the Sony's, Its early days, but so far I quite like it.

[bakubo]

I have never been a fan of a brand or even have brand loyalty (other than the undesired sort of forced loyalty caused by incompatible lens mounts). To me cameras are just tools I use to take photos. I have been okay with every brand I have used. Don't care what the name is. Brand you see everywhere, okay. Brand you don't see much, okay. There are practical benefits to a popular brand, but the popularity or lack of popularity doesn't inspire love or revulsion in me.

[bfitzgerald]

It's worth experimenting and trying different products. I don't care about the badge myself it's a practical thing (I'm just not into Canon's handling much) I probably could get used to it after a long while.

Despite the hassles I had with the 2 other makers, it wasn't a waste of time entirely because I didn't sell off all my A mount stuff, and I got (problems aside) practical hands on use of other makers, to see what they were like. I don't get the 1.6x crop factor either it's not great if you are using 17/18mm lenses as you lose some coverage on the wide end. Doesn't seem to have caused Canon any problems though. At the current deal the 60d is going for it's a bit of a bargain and then some. I'd get on better with models like the 60/70d than I do the entry Canon's.

Have a play and see what grabs you and how you get on. Only time will tell you if it's good for you or not.

[peterottaway]

[quote="classiccameras"]Your right Barry, every one and his brother has a Canon, just like the 5 door silver hatch back or is black now the new silver!!

See that's the rub I bought a new car last October and following local tradition I bought a white 4 door sedan which replaced by then rather elderly white 4 door sedan ! There were differences as well with the older car being a 4 speed auto V6 and the new one a 4 cylinder turbo with electronic everything and a 6 speed auto. Choices for one market don't carry over to another very different market.

[classiccameras]

Yes, the car analogy was basically the UK market and to some extent the Western European market. White seems to be making a come back here but black seems to have taken over from silver.