A77 II has landed!

[bfitzgerald]

Black is nice but it shows dirt easily. Silver seemed to be the choice of many for the "don't like washing my car that often" group!

[Greg Beetham]

I think Henry nailed it for a travel type inconspicuous camera, a smallish silver camera is pretty much incognito photography, who takes any notice of someone taking happy snaps with a camera that looks like a toy. (but what they don’t realize is it takes serious photos)

Conversely someone with a big black D4 and a large camera bag is someone that has to be watched carefully, just in case, actually those guys should be arrested just on suspicion of doing something illegal, who knows what they are taking photos of, no secret is safe with them around.

See what I mean? Totally different reaction but the outcome isn’t much different with a photo from one to the other.
Greg

[peterottaway]

The guys with a fetish for bad haircuts, cheap knock off raincoats, handcuffs and lengths of rubber hose are not the only worry. For every one of those there is a dozen aspiring " GangSta " that you are being noticed by. That is if there actually is a difference between the two groups.

As the old saying goes if there is an increase in crime you have two choices. Increase the size of the police force or increase the size of Parliament.

[bfitzgerald]

Don't ignore fashion and photography, I know of a few people who openly admitted to me they only bought a full frame camera to "look good" and more "pro like" Same goes for the L lenses, some of those lenses never get to even take a shot very often. There are some people out there who are into this side of it..beefy stuff looking good with your camera.

I've frequently stood next to tourists who are packing stuff that makes my meagre "budget collection" look decidedly tame in comparison. I remember being next to one guy years ago and I had an FZ-5, he had some of the most expensive gear I'd ever seen at that time. There is always some degree of enjoying new toys/gadgets, but I've never been one for gear envy, slowly I build up the items I needed. You'd be surprised what some folks spend on photography I often see people with pro level gear out and about and they are far from working photographers.

[classiccameras]

It was just the same in the 35-mm MF days, we used to call it male jewelry, I guess today thats just expensive 'Bling'.

There was alway a couple in my camera club that had to have Leica or a Contax, but they never took any better picture than the guy with his Praktica.
There's always going to be a snob element with boys toys.

I had to stay down at the budget end of this hobby as for one thing, I couldn't afford much more and it was purely a hobby and I wasn't earning a living from it and still don't. There has been some great work done over the years by photographers both amateur and famous with budget equipment, so don't knock APS-C or even 4/3.
I like to think I take a nice 'snap' as my wife insists on calling it, she carried a Voigtlander Vito B round for years and she took better pictures than me, still does actually with her G16.

[bfitzgerald]

I'm more interested in the practical aspects of a tool rather than looking good. So I've never felt "bad" about using 5 series cameras, though I do wish Sony would have move them up a notch over time (or had a more interesting 6 series range)
The appeal of the "7" is around the semi pro level spec or near there. There are some useful additions (dual control dials, DMF, more customisation, stuff like that) but honestly 95% of what I need 5 series models can do.

Shame DMF took a hike on the 57, and I don't think setting the auto ISO level is a pro level feature myself. I'm not willing to spend £1000 to get them either

Anyway, back to the A77ii there is a growing number of samples here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/berlinbac ... 127002740/

There are raw files here but only IDC will open them
http://www.quesabesde.com/noticias/sony ... otos_11723

[classiccameras]

Although I recently got a used Canon 550D, I think the A-57 was and will become an iconic model in the old Sony A mount line up.

I see Photozone are going to test all Sony lenses now by using an adaptor on a 7 body.

[peterottaway]

Klaus won't thank me for extra work, but they could put not just Sony to a stress test but other brands as well.

[bfitzgerald]

Photozone are ok but they don't review legacy stuff (bar the 50mm f1.7 which must have been an awful copy - nothing like the one I have in my bag)
They don't really do a lot of A mount reviews, and what they have is quite out of date. I do drop in the odd time just to see the reviews on other mounts.

A57..all things being equal I'm almost tempted to get another one as a back up..and skip the plans for an A77 entirely

[classiccameras]

I would certainly try and get another 57 body, they are becoming quite scarce now on the used market, I checked LCE used web site the other day, nothing.

I was lucky with mine as it was second hand but had under 1000 actuations according to the dealer and it looked like new. Love this camera and for me anyway I cannot see any advantage in 24mp.
I'm a low ISO landscape person and Sony are excellent for this type of work. Not forgetting their action modes are class leading, but apart from some Aviation work I never use the mode.

[Greg Beetham]

I think passing on the A77 is probably a good idea Barry, there are people who claim it isn’t noisy but I for one think it is, well noisier than the A57 anyway, and I don’t ‘get’ the idea that if you downsize back to 16MP you then get equivalence with the A57, so why buy a 24MP APS-C camera then? I suppose the 7 UI is better than the 5 but I still haven’t seen anyone test the jpeg output and duration at smaller sizes, I couldn’t get anyone to actually run some tests.
Anyway whatever, here is a list of service bulletin updates for the A77 so far, that I can find that is, some of these require a trip to the repair shop for hardware updates I think, and some are just firmware updates with a service bulletin, I haven’t actually downloaded any of them to go through them in detail you have to pay to get them and as I don’t own an A77 why would I want to pay just to see exactly what they are?
Greg

SLT-A77service updates.jpg (217.06 KiB) Viewed 5098 times

[bfitzgerald]

Interesting Greg..where did you get that from?

The A77 in raw, well I played around and you def have to work the files harder v the A57 no doubt there (for high ISO) also there seems to be a magenta tint at high ISO levels (you can correct it to a point) As for high res and high ISO you get nowhere near the native resolution with these sensors, not even close to it. I've been using lossy DNG on the A57 for some jobs, to cut files sizes down to more reasonable levels.

The only reason I even thought about the A77 is for scenic stuff (gps would be useful) and as a second body with a few bits I might find handy micro AF adjust and things like that.

There wasn't a hope in hell I'd pay the original asking price of £1100, but it is pretty cheap now (less than I paid for a D7000) A57's are still around I could pick one up possibly. I'll see what turns up, I'm not mad about 24mp (OTT for my needs by some margin) the A700's around are not as cheap as they should be for a camera that age..only other option to find an A580 and give that a bash. I'd rather avoid the silly hot shoe change for as long as possible. There are a few choices out there..

[Greg Beetham]

It was at this place Barry http://www.manualsparadise.com/ShowProd ... =M34589437 this list shows the number of updates and service bulletins also service parts changes for the A700.
Yep the camera manufacturers aren’t giving quite a lot of customers what they actually want in a camera, they have been assuming that people want ever more megapixels and that will ensure motivation to upgrade and buy a new camera, and they keep adding flim flam gimmicky stuff thinking that that will attract more customers too.

Funny thing I saw a list of camera models that someone posted the other day on dpr about the most number of images per camera model (just the Sony ones) on Facebook and the largest image number was for the A100 followed by the A200, (at a distance) both of those cameras were out in front by quite a margin.
You could say that was because they have been around for the longest time and that would probably be a good point but then why did so many people continue to use those old cameras for so long? Did Sony take any notice of that and ask why that would be when designing and bringing out new models?

Lots of people at dpr think their A77’s are the bees knees and it seems like a good camera from what I can see but I don’t think I want 24MP in an APS-C camera for any particular reason, the processing of those large files consumes battery power and memory space at a much greater rate than say an A100 does and then it’s got the EVF power consumption on top of that again, and THEN if you want to post an image you have to downsize it a long way further than a camera that produces a smaller MP image thus increasing the chances of artefacts.
And I think Agorabasta was pretty much correct about the purple fringing being caused by the wiring, they put the copper wiring over the top of the sensor and that causes a halo at angles, such as towards the edges of the sensor, and Sony has been experimenting with reducing the space between the sensels which is probably fine at perpendicular angles but shows up at an angle especially if there is some defocussing (all according to some stuff I have read at different places).

I think most people will buy a new camera if they think they need one or the old one broke, not because of the ‘must have’ more MP’s and video, but above all the dang thing should be reliable and work properly, and guess what my A100 is reliable and seems to work properly for the most part. The only thing I’ve noticed lately is the battery runs down a lot faster than it used to do.
Maybe the camera spends more time not being used and I don’t check for longer periods how the charge in the battery is holding up but I do think there is something not right with the battery consumption just the same, maybe the on-board battery needs replacing perhaps, but it’s been doing pretty good for a camera that’s getting on in years now.

The A700 went back up in price after it was discontinued, there was a new one for sale at a retail outlet in the US last year and the asking price was something like $1500 from memory, you hoo Sony are you paying attention.
Greg

[classiccameras]

Greg, sadly, the buying public are enticed to up grade to ever more pixels and I know my local Jessops store promoted this selling point to new customers. You would always hear, this model has more pixels than that model and so on.

I was reluctant to go beyond 12mp and get the A57 but its proved to be a good choice for me.
Some of the best pictures for IQ I ever took were on a 12mp Canon 450D. I have no intention in going beyond 16mp and if I'm left with no choice in the future I will search out an older lower MP camera on the used market.

I as some of you know recently got myself a Canon 550D which is 18MP, but in all honesty my 450D had a tad better resolution, its down to pixel density and of course lens performance as well.. The new Canon 20MP 700D has not scored quite as well for IQ as the earlier 18MP models. They are all pandering now to the movie facility on DSLR's and I really wonder if the new crops of DSLR's on the market are going to be jack of all trades but master of none. Another thing thats seriously getting left behind is lens performance with the higher and higher pixel count, They are trying to play catchup now but unless you invest in expensive glass you will not do these high pixel sensors much justice.
I can remember a few years ago, Nikon saying, they could see no advantage in going beyond 12MP and if so it caused all sorts of headaches in the design lab to deal with the extra noise, and how they dealt with it, more often than not it was to the detriment of IQ.

[Greg Beetham]

Yes Pete I read somewhere about the circle of confusion and how that was made at the size it was based on viewing distance from the finished print etc. but now some people scrutinize their photos at 100% and pick nits instead of looking at the content and the composure as it was intended. Well that original circle of confusion in film lenses has tightened up somewhat now I believe as the that diffraction point was getting to be larger than the size of the pixel but I don’t exactly know what standard they are aiming at now and where do you stop anyway? And like you say how many people are going to re-equip with a whole new bunch of higher class lenses just so they can look at their photos at 100% again taken with the latest densely packed sensor?
Most just want a camera that works properly I’d say, where is the camera the Mum can point at the kids and get a good photo without her knowing how to compensate for them being partially backlit? Like playing on the swing under the tree in the backyard, or in the waves at the beach, after all this time I don’t think there is one that can do that automatically but I bet it can do panoramas and video and night scenes etc.
I saw that Fuji is making a killing selling ‘Polaroid’ cameras and film now, where is the digital camera that can do an instant print?
And I think some people still like family albums, if they don’t have one at the moment they probably will start one at some point, their Mum had one and showed the kids her mother and other passed away family members in there so I’d say that idea of a family album would linger on for some time as everyone knows that hard drives and even CD’s don’t last forever, they don’t even last for a reasonable amount of time let alone for as long as those old prints in the family albums did.
Greg