Nex Cameras as reviewed by DPReview

[WaltKnapp]

I read an interesting analogy recently on a different subject. At first, all automobiles were basically trucks. After a while, more comfortable cars were made. Luxuries added, such as not needing to hand crank to start. Meanwhile, trucks are still available to do the big hauling.

Making something easier and simpler doesn't mean it's being crippled or dumbed down, and if you need a dslr, you can still use one.

The problem is not making something easier and simpler, the problem is when it's decided that's capable of everything a DSLR can do when it so obviously is not. And it's substituted in the market for all DSLRs.

Right now you can still use a DSLR, but if some NEX advocates are right real soon now when you go into the store to buy a replacement DSLR you may very well find that all that's offered is a NEX 5 which is touted as being "just as good as a DSLR"

And there will be the in between, when you can buy a DSLR but it will be massively overpriced.

This is a very real possibility.

Walt

[Danjojo_Resurrected1]

And there will be the in between, when you can buy a DSLR but it will be massively overpriced.

This is a very real possibility.

Walt

I think that in between time you mention here is going to happen very soon. We will see the mutations and prodigy of the NEX and m4/3 models gobbling up some large portions of compact P&S sales and all of the entry-level and mid-level DSLR sales. First entry-level then as all around performance becomes fully a700 level, it whipes out the mid-level. For DSLR we will have only have $2,500-$6,000 cameras.

I'm guessing about 3-4 years for complete transition to this scenario. Though I'm not a real Sony agent I do have close friendships with some Sony guys and family relationships with Fujifilm and Nikon....they see the same thing happening. As with their superzooms, some compacts, and some DSLR's they offer - expect their first ones to be a good portion Sony design/parts also.

It would be great if the e-mount could be a system similar to m4/3. We'll see if Sony can leverage it.

[WyldRage]

I also see the mirrorless format dealing a blow to the beginner-level DLSR, but they won't replace it completely. Too many consumers want OVF and the large body for it to simply disappear, but there will be a reduction in sales of DSLR: not because they became obsolete, but because of the users that don't want the OVF.

I am one of these.

Not long ago, we were forced to get DSLR if we wanted good picture quality. Now, the NEX, the PEN and the GF-1 fill a camera profile that was ignored at best: compact, great image quality, interchangeable lenses and no OVF/EVF (or at least a removable one). The complete opposite of the superzoom bridge cameras. That's what I was looking for, and I am happy that I can finally buy one.

Some companies may abandon the DSLR field, but Canon and Nikon, for exemple, make far too much money off them to do so.

[pakodominguez]

The problem is not making something easier and simpler, the problem is when it's decided that's capable of everything a DSLR can do when it so obviously is not. And it's substituted in the market for all DSLRs.

I'm not defending Sony, but if the market push camera makers to this scenario, you better adapt or start buying A700/A900 now for the photographs you'll take in 10 years...

And there will be the in between, when you can buy a DSLR but it will be massively overpriced.

You're and old guy, tell me: how much it used to cost a professional camera 20 years ago? how much 30 years ago? Dk did a comparative between the cost of a Hasselblad and a house in the 70's. Guess what: Pro and Advanced amateur cameras are underpriced. Good for us because we can renew equipment faster and easier than 25 years ago. But we have to be ready for what is coming -and I don't think the catastrophic scenario you are describing will really happen.

Many people needs, for different reasons (look at Henry's post about his take on NEX), cameras with OVF. I can not imagine myself going back to EVF for work, specially events -I used the Dimage 7Hi until I got the Maxxum 7D. So, there is a market for OVF too and that will guarantee the production of this kind of cameras for a while.

This is a very real possibility.

Yes, but is not NEX's fault. NEX was the answer to a demand from the Market: samll cameras with better quality (mean: bigger sensor) The Leica X1 is backordered and Adorama is not expecting any until the late July, and this because Leica didn't expect selling that many cameras! Same happened with the GF1 last year, that was out of stock during the holiday season (I think only the uninteresting kit was available...)

You can not blame people for wanting something that you don't want.

Regards

[bakubo]

Yes, but is not NEX's fault. NEX was the answer to a demand from the Market: samll cameras with better quality (mean: bigger sensor) The Leica X1 is backordered and Adorama is not expecting any until the late July, and this because Leica didn't expect selling that many cameras! Same happened with the GF1 last year, that was out of stock during the holiday season (I think only the uninteresting kit was available...)

On one hand I agree with you, but IMO there is one important component you are leaving out. That component is Sony and other companies trying to shape the market and people's expectations so that they can reduce their costs and have higher profit. I think the steady, with increasing speed, run to eliminate the OVF (even eliminating the EVF too) is a calculated attempt to shape the market and expectations. I agree that lots of people like using the big LCD on the back, I like to use it too sometimes, but I don't think there is some big demand that at the same time the VF be eliminated. Creating a whole new generation of young people who never used a camera that had a VF, naturally, leads to no expectation of having one or even any understanding that if they had it they can get around some of the problems they have with an LCD (and not even realize that those problems didn't even exist until recently).

As some people still know, just a few years ago FF sensors were even in tiny cameras such as the Olympus Stylus Epic with a very good 35mm f2.8 lens, Contax T3, Nikon 35Ti/28Ti, Contax G2 (a bit larger), and many 35mm p&s cameras of various prices and quality. They had FF sensors, all had an OVF, and they even included a small built-in flash, and yet many of them were as small or often smaller than NEX + lens. I would like to see something like the Canon G11 with APS-C sensor (different lens with smaller zoom ratio necessary, of course).

Here is an interesting comparison of various small cameras with different sensor sizes:

[agorabasta]

Frankly, I don't understand how there can be such a discussion about the current Nex as the one going on here. (DPR is another issue - da boyz blew it, and they know it.)

To me it's quite obvious that the current Nex3/5 is a P&S, a sorta 'ultimate' one among them. And I get it to replace my Lx3 that also has no OVF/EVF, btw. (And I hated OVFs on my earlier G7/G9.)

When later there's another Nex that can replace a cam like a700, I'm going to get it to replace one of my a700's.

But now there is no P&S better than Nex5, period. Now could one possibly argue against that?

[twm47099]

[quote="bakubo"]

As some people still know, just a few years ago FF sensors were even in tiny cameras such as the Olympus Stylus Epic with a very good 35mm f2.8 lens, Contax T3, Nikon 35Ti/28Ti, Contax G2 (a bit larger), and many 35mm p&s cameras of various prices and quality. They had FF sensors, all had an OVF, and they even included a small built-in flash, and yet many of them were as small or often smaller than NEX + lens. I would like to see something like the Canon G11 with APS-C sensor (different lens with smaller zoom ratio necessary, of course).

Here is an interesting comparison of various small cameras with different sensor sizes:

I'll add another. Back in the 1970's I remember drooling over my brother-in-law's Olympus SLR that he used to carry around in his suit jacket pocket. He kept the flash in the other pocket. FF, interchangeable lenses with excellent prime, and a vg OVF.

(I had the Minolta SRT-101, not very compact).

tom

[pakodominguez]

When later there's another Nex that can replace a cam like a700, I'm going to get it to replace one of my a700's.

For some people NEX is the sign that evil Sony and other big companies won the battle against OVF -in their imaginary, that A700 replacement won't have a bright viewfinder.

Since Sony and other companies are very hermetic about how they see the future, this discussion will last until the expected camera shows up on a Pub's table...

[Dusty]

I also see the mirrorless format dealing a blow to the beginner-level DLSR, but they won't replace it completely. Too many consumers want OVF and the large body for it to simply disappear, but there will be a reduction in sales of DSLR: not because they became obsolete, but because of the users that don't want the OVF.

I am one of these.

Not long ago, we were forced to get DSLR if we wanted good picture quality. Now, the NEX, the PEN and the GF-1 fill a camera profile that was ignored at best: compact, great image quality, interchangeable lenses and no OVF/EVF (or at least a removable one). The complete opposite of the superzoom bridge cameras. That's what I was looking for, and I am happy that I can finally buy one.

Some companies may abandon the DSLR field, but Canon and Nikon, for example, make far too much money off them to do so.

Didn't we go thru all of this with the P&S 35mm? Some had real glass, decent quality lenses, some were cheap junk, and then we had the compacts - 110, disc, APS. It seems like none of them replaced the real SLR film models.

I think we're safe for a very long time, people want something substantial if they're paying that much for it (the Nex is overpriced for a P&S camera, and with the superlens too big for a P&S). The Nex doesn't fit that bill for the serious shooter, which is why it's not marketed to them.

Even if the lenses and sensors are as good as the 550, who here would want to do a whole day's shooting with it? Back-up? Yep. Pocket camera (questionable) for when you *may* want to snap a few shots? Yep. Shoot a whole wedding and reception with it? Nope!

The Land Rover, etc, changed because the need for such vehicles changed. Few people now *need* to pound along thru unpaved, ungraded roads. Some may still *want* to, but they'll pay the price. Those who still need to are also forced to pay the price. Buy a Conestoga Wagon today and see what it costs!

I think we'll still see advances that make the DSLR outshine and be a more reasonable option for pros and advanced amateurs for some time to come.

Dusty

[agorabasta]

When later there's another Nex that can replace a cam like a700, I'm going to get it to replace one of my a700's.

For some people NEX is the sign that evil Sony and other big companies won the battle against OVF -in their imaginary, that A700 replacement won't have a bright viewfinder.

Since Sony and other companies are very hermetic about how they see the future, this discussion will last until the expected camera shows up on a Pub's table...

One thing is quite clear at the moment - there's a problem with some people's psyche, and they project that problem on an innocent material object and then at times onto some other people who happen not to hate that material object...

[bakubo]

One thing is quite clear at the moment - there's a problem with some people's psyche, and they project that problem on an innocent material object and then at times onto some other people who happen not to hate that material object...

There is no reason for you to be so offensive just because some people have a different view than you do.

By the way, although I thought this comment of yours was over the top I do love the many photos you post. Really amazing work! Keep 'em coming!

[Javelin]

Didn't we go thru all of this with the P&S 35mm? Some had real glass, decent quality lenses, some were cheap junk, and then we had the compacts - 110, disc, APS. It seems like none of them replaced the real SLR film models.
Dusty

Yes and the SLR ,makers didn;t get any of that business whil the film companies cleaned up. Film drove the market not the hardware. thats where the big money was and there was only a few survivors of all the camera compnaies there was over the years.

Now they control their own destiny., you can bet they are going to maximize their profits.

I actually agree with walt. I think the camrra market is going to hoogenize into Phones (personal devices) Cameras like Nex for everyone else. and only the top en DSLR's for the pros. DSLR's might wind up being veryy diferent animals int he futue. for example I see no room for APS-C FF and medium and large format digitals. if large format deliveres the best results then thats what the pros are going to use. By pro I mean someone who can afford the tools they need to do their jobs regardless of the cost. If there is no work that can support the expensive equipment then there will obviously not be any cameras for it.

[Greg Beetham]

I still think the NEX is a 'niche' camera, or a camera designed too create a niche, just to see if there are any overlooked customers living in that particular segment that want that kind of camera, Sony might discover quite a few, but I think there will be a lot bought as second cameras. There will also be sales to people as a primary camera only, and that is the market that is interesting, that will be the market that probably makes or breakes the future of NEX style cameras.
I don't think the intention is to try too replace a camera like the A700 with a NEX style one, it would take a much more sophisticated version of NEX for that to be even a remote possibility, we probably are just taking the whole NEX thing a tad too seriously.
The intent of the NEX is obviously (too me), to be a good convenient little second camera handycam, and hopefully make a lot of sales to those who are looking at buying a decent P&S...and that is the tough one, is the price competitive enough? is it portable enough? does the small zoom give enough range? (the 18-200 would, but then it's no longer equivalent too the typical P&S in portability).
Interesting times ahead for the NEX I think.
Greg

ps. Dusty, here in Oz the vast majority of roads are off-road catagory, not suitable for normal cars at all, sure the major well travelled connecting roads are sealed, and most of the secondary roads get graded and rolled fairly often, but if you get off those you could find yourself very soon in high clearance territory, you would take a car there if you like taking risks, or have a good backup rescue plan.

[Danjojo_Resurrected1]

I think there is a huge market.

Consider my wife and the many people who feel like she does. She is too intimidated by the size and controls of SLR cameras but she can obviously see the difference in image quality between them and the box of compact P&S's we have. If she doesn't have one of those on her she would still rather use her cell-phone than bother with an SLR. She cares about how products look and how much space they take up in her purse.

For her the choice between a NEX and a m4/3 is obvious because the little bit of size difference and layout matters, let alone the huge difference when compared to an SLR. She also likes the fact that the 16mm pancake is so wide in angle of view because of baby showers, going away parties at work, etc.

I think there is many women like her who will be attracted to the NEX cameras.

With the oodles of compact P&S users in general we can break them down into 3 groups.

1. They have a cheap compact camera but they are so care-free when it comes to image quality they would just as well be happy if all they have is their phone and its built-in camera. Especially as cell-phones are getting higher megapixel sensors a huge majority still sees that as the be all-end all of image quality. Even had a few people try to get into heated arguments with me over it!

2. People who have a compact because of the size but do not like the image quality, for a while now...they either suffer or make the jump to SLR cameras.

3. People who have a compact and are fine with the image quality because of the size advantage over SLR's but won't accept cell-phone images.

For 2 and 3 a large portion of them now have a new option that will tweak interest when they are looking to upgrade their old camera or freshly get into photography.

A very large portion of entry/beginner DSLR users never get very deeply into advanced use...they use it as a better point and shoot or they let it gather dust until maybe its holiday or birthday time. For these people their entry/beginner level DSLR really has no advantages over a more portable, affordable, and "cool" Sony aNEX camera.

I think the camera will either sell very well or very, very well.....depending on the advertising Sony hits the public with. Right now there has been a decent amount of Sony TX7 advertisements on the television and local radio (San Diego, CA). If they do the same with the NEX and let people know that they "need" this new, sexy camera....it's going to blow away the sales of any DSLR in recent memory...and a great many of them combined.


For Average Joe and even many flavors of serious photographers, there is no reason not to get the smaller, more affordable camera that will give them just as good of results as entry/mid-level DSLR.

My half-brother who is the Nikon representative even put one on order, and he hasn't used anything besides free Nikons in a loooong time

[Greg Beetham]

I think the camera will either sell very well or very, very well.....depending on the advertising Sony hits the public with. Right now there has been a decent amount of Sony TX7 advertisements on the television and local radio (San Diego, CA). If they do the same with the NEX and let people know that they "need" this new, sexy camera....it's going to blow away the sales of any DSLR in recent memory...and a great many of them combined.

Promotion by Sony in the past has been a little patchy but they might do better this time, the NEX might actually be a better camera for them at the retail coalface, it could very well be something the vast majority of the new generation of camera sales reps can identify with, with it's nex-gen interface, especially in the Sony style area as they don't seem too have much DSLR knowledge depth there.

For Average Joe and even many flavors of serious photographers, there is no reason not to get the smaller, more affordable camera that will give them just as good of results as entry/mid-level DSLR.

If Sony addresses the tendancy of the camera too overexpose slightly, as this camera is most likely to be used as a grab and shoot, it will also most likely be left in [Auto] mode by many/most users.

My half-brother who is the Nikon representative even put one on order, and he hasn't used anything besides free Nikons in a loooong time

Ha ha that's a good one.
Greg